James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

[suzywong]

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

Thanks Uwila, but she picked on the wrong one, i wont sit back and take abuse from someone like that. But thanks anyway.

As for the other comment, sorry just getting used to you all so i have forgotten your name. I know they were 10 but im having a bit of trouble trying to see that.

Can we set up a tammy thread ;) that way I can read about the jamie case on the jamie thread and tammy on the tammy thread lol x

Im now confused

tammy - it's mikeyjon, a mixture of my kids names. sarah was taken.

i just don't know what to make of all your comments. i think that most of you have a valid point and its refreshing to hear the veiws of intelligent women who arn't afraid to stand up for what the believe in xxx

I try and i know i come across as full on but i do stress that the thing i try to get across the most is i try to be honest at all times.

It would be more fun to set up a "Twat" thread... But I don't really understand the need. she was attacked and defended. that seems to be par for the course on any controversial mumsnet thread.

Thompson and Venables are not the victims. They committed a truly horrible crime, of which James was the victim, and James' family will suffer the effects of that crime for the rest of their lives (I pity his siblings, who haven't been mentioned yet - living in the shadow of his death must be very hard).

But for the sake of James, shouldn't we try to understand why something so awful can happen? That way it may, eventually, be possible to stop it happening again. The memory of a sweet, innocent little boy deserves better than a legacy of hate and violence. If society can help Thompson and Venables spend the rest of their lives trying to be good, decent people, then something is gained, it seems to me.

Tammy/Twat (!) - you have every right to express your opinion. I don't agree with the death penalty (unless the criminal requests it - Ian Brady should have been allowed to starve himself to death) but respect your right to do so and to express that opinion, so carry on!!

LOL@ Uwila, i like you, you like my Twat name, thats gr8. Hey seeing as no one likes me using it y dont you? lol x

Mikeyjohn, I know what you mean about them being only 10. My initial reaction was very harsh to those 2 children but after looking at the facts rather than listening to the tabloids I am more angry with a society that:

1. Lets this happen
2. Blames anything and anyone but themselves
3. Ignores abuse in the home for the most part (only recently has the culture of speaking out begun, how many years of abuse was hidden, and those that were abused didnt get support and help when needed)
4. Lets the slaughter of the innocent continue in other countries.. e.g. Rwanda

The list goes on..

Thank you mama and you did make some valid points yourself. excellent post.

I'm just curious, does anyone know if T & V have syblings? What has become of them? I think I read some references to sybling below, but I don't know anything about them.

I dont know, but if they do I hope that they have been supported and counselled

Again Awen a good point, but i think, especially in my case. Its hard to see past a babies murder, whatever the age of the offending. i try to tell myself all the time they were 10 over and over, but the truth is i just picture my little boy and the anger starts all over again.

Awenamanger, I would have to say that t & V are most certainly not the victims of this horrible murder. They may be victims of a broken home or neglectful parent. And for that, their parents have some explaining to do.

But, the real victim is James Bulger who is dead forever.

Yes Uwila, they both do, i think V had a younger bro with learning probs, and T had a few including an older bro, who said according to the book i read and keep quoting, sorry. That he was out of control well words to that effect.

And HEAR HEAR, the real victim was James the little angel and its important to remeber that.

I do understand what you mean about the anger, and it is a valid emotion to feel but alsoa very powerful and perhaps dangerous one on which to base a course of action.

'Shallane, age 12, was beaten to death by her parents. She had lost her jacket and when she was unable to find it she was severly punished. Her parents said they were acting on the Biblical injuction of 39 lashes times 3. Shallanes mother tied her to the bed and watched as her father beat her with an electical cord. Beofre the beating was finished, shallane died of internal injuries. Shallane had, in fact, been beaten 39 lashes times 3'. Fontaine et al, Mental Health NUrsing 2003, p615 Prentice Hall Press.

Do we feel more angry, less angry or equally so angry?

Is the fact that Jamie was killed by children more horrific? IN a sense yes, yes that society has damaged children so young to think that it is ok to murder another..

I don't know how old your children are, but I have an 11 year old son, so the fact that T&V were 10 years old when they murdered James Bulger has real significance to me. A 10 year old is still a young child. Not an animal or a monster. What they did was horrific, no-one would ever deny that. But to suggest that two 10 year old children are evil monsters who deserve to be lynched/torn limb from limb/tried as adults is completely wrong imo.

Tammy - the whole point that many of us are arguing is that James Bulger was not your child. Of course of course of COURSE we would feel unspeakable things and want to commit unspeakable acts of violence if this equally unspeakable act had been inflicted on a child of ours. But we don't want to live in a society where that kind of individualised violence is perpetrated. And for us, tackling the ills of that society goes beyond saying just 'kill the boys who killed'. It's a much nastier, harder look at what causes these things to happen in the first place - if you don't feel they were just evil one-offs.

I agree spacemonkey. My ds in only 4 so it is hard to step back from the emotional outrage but you have to.

Oh and on my other point about Rwanda and the like, they are training 8 year olds to fight in combat and murder others.. there goes society again!

brb - got to clean out bunny b4 dark!

I don't know that you can put the blame on society. There was a child in the US (can't remember his name). He was about ten, and had gone to school one day and shot another child to death. I saw a show (60 minutes, I think) on him. The show was about his upbringing, his personality, his home life, what had caused him to be such an evil person. He cam from a normal home and had at least one sybling who acted nothing like him. It seemed to be that this child was different by nature, and not by nuture. We can not rule out that these mose may have been chemically imbalanced, or biologically something made them the way they are. This is why I question if they can actually be rehabilitated.

Now, society perhaps played a part in not saving James when so many witnessed it. But, I wonder if society can be blamed for the monsters that these two ten year olds were, and I fear probably still are.

I know, I know but he was someones chils, and space i can see what you are saying about your kids but my ds is exactly the same age and looks like him and i would kill anyone who touched my children so maybe io do see it wrong but the emotion is the same.

Uwila it looks like we are ganging up here, but i feel the same. Society let James down, T & V were the ones who did the deed and i am pretty sure they knew what they were doing. I dont think i can see beyond never forgiving what they did.

Your sense of horror is of course understandable Tammy (my daughter was 2 when James was murdered). But is it right to construct opinions solely on the basis of emotion? Have you read the articles MM links to from the guardian website?

I did, but i still feel the same. Those points were made in every mothers nightmare, as i think its mrk thomas made the same points but i cant help how i feel, no more than you can.