James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

[suzywong]

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

For me, the threat of prison is harsh enough to deter. I couldn't bear to be incarcerated. So in my case, yes it is effective.

However, I also have enough morals not to murder anyway, even without the threat of prison.

But there are those who don't have enough morals not to murder (not talking about the boys here - I truly believe they didn't understand the full implication of what they were doing) and for whom prison isn't a threat. So what do we do with them? Lock them up and throw away the key? Or try to help them understand why what they're doing is wrong? I believe that the latter is mark of a more humane society and does often work. But there's very unlikely to be a 100% non-recidivism rate ever.

(NB Not sure morals is the right word, but it's the best I can think of at the mo!)

the law is the law and we have in society a set of rules gives us boundaries of behaviour, without that there would be chaos and society would collapse. An upbringing has a huge bearing on the way you behave towards people, however it does not determine all of your behaviour or surely anyone who had a slightly abnormal upbringing would always be making excuses and saying "Oh I steal because I was not given any affection as a child" if you see what am saying...yes these children had an abnormal upbringing however has anyone ever read any David Pzeler books "A boy named it" that might not be the right name...but the point am trying to make is he had serious neglection/abuse and had a very unhappy childhood...this did not turn him inot a child killer indeed he wrote a book about it all...I don't know what it is and quite frankly am not in the slighest bit interested in what a person want to kill another person...it makes me feel physically sick!! so these 2 boys should be treated like all people who do this should be treated...a life for a life ie. if you do this you should never expect forgiveness (there is NO EXCUSE FOR THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOUR BEING JUSTIFIABLE BECAUSE THEY ARE ONLY POOR CHILDREN WHO DID NOT KNOW BETTER) people and you reap what you sow...I hope they get the justice they deserve and never ever get released (a bit strong worded but they have done wrong and should never be released and that's it really)...don't even care if anyone disagrees with me...how would you feel if your child's murderer was given another change...yuo would hate him/her forever I know must people would...rant over

Lav, they have been released.

Gobblidook - re re-offending - the stats on re-offending in lots of cases, and paedophiles and young offenders in particular, are way lower where the offenders have received rehabilitation rather than punitive measures only. It's a sad state of affairs where the best outcome, that damaged people are put back together benefitting them and society at large, are the ones that large and vocal sections of society are not receptive to.

Hercules, Aloha, KateandtheKids - amongst others, you make me feel there may be hope for us yet. Yes, it was a terrible, awful, set of actions taken by 2 damaged children. But they were children, and not very well functioning at that.

When I was young, probably about 10 in fact, I nearly hung one of my friends. I knew it was dangerous to be messing around with a noose on the washing line, but had no real idea of the consequences. She slipped and started choking. Thank god that we managed to sort it out - what would the media have portrayed me as?

I think the points about the media are really pertinent. Is it OUR bsuiness at all? We have a legal system, in which we all participate, and we delegate our punishment / rehabilitation to it. So why is the media ALWAYS trying to influence it. It's not about justice, it's about money. Don't be taken in that they actually care about Jamie's mum - they care about their sales. If they could find the boys, young men now, they'd have a field day - helping her get to find them just gives them a cloak of (what somemight see as) respectability.

what can I say...just about sums up society to release people like this...end of comment

I thought you were a christian lav. Your post goes against the whole crux of christianity being about forgiveness and nat about revenge.

The law is the law, they have served their time and lawfully should be able to make some kind of life fro themselves whether that be right or wrong that is the law, quite frankly Lav your post has made me feel rather sick. Not meaning to be personal but to feel an eye for an eye for children????

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I really cant see how it is relevant that one abused child didnt turn out badly therefore you can apply that to the next abused child.

To protect them from people who believe in revenge.

Should we let them out without adequate protection knowing that there are people out there would would be quite happy to dish out their own brand of punishment?

Is it just me, or are we just going around in circles with this debate?

I've been offline for a few hours and nothing seems to have changed.

If there weren't people who believed so fervently in vengeance, they wouldn't need bodyguards.

Lav, have you read the whole of this thread? Didn't you know of the case before this?

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hercules, I think that it is vital that we find out why it was different in this case. If we don't how can we possibly give the right help to the right people to make sure that it never happens again?! To say it happened because they were abused isn't enough. If we don't understand what went wrong in this case how can we put it right?

gosh, i look at my ds and think how awful. but i look at 10 year olds and think how awful too. are you people that are baying for blood saying that a 10 year old is morally responsible enough to be punished for the rest of their lives (surely having done the deed is enough punishment?)?

you must believe that it is society's right to punish and exact revenge. I believe that no one is intrinsically evil, but a product of what has happened in their lives and altho some people need to be locked up for the safety of others the criminal justice system should be there to rehabilitate wherever possible not to exact revenge or punishment.

i guess we'll never agree on this.

Those who believe that the 2 boys are evil and deserve far more punishment than they have had; if someone bent on revenge did get hold of one or other of them, tortured him and beat him, maybe to death, to show him what it's like - an eye for an eye in fact - what should be that person's punishment?

Logically, it would be nothing because they deserved it, wouldn't it. Where does that leave your argument?

Nowhere, JanH - it's an unsustainable argument for this very reason.

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Well we know that, hunkermunker...

We don't 'know' they won't do it again, we can't possibly 'know' that for sure. But keeping them in prison because there is an outside chance they 'might' do it again is wrong.

James Bulger's mum should not have the right to their details now - but she should have had the right to meet them face to face before they were released. I think all victims and/or their families should have this right and that the criminals should have no choice.

BTW, I believe our revered tabloid press called James "Jamie", but his family never did.

James' killers have caused me to be paranoid when out and about with 2.5yr old DS - I have to have him not only within sight but within about 2 feet of me at all times. I hate feeling so tense and don't want to bring DS up to fear people...but... I've always felt that Denise Bulger (sorry, can't remember her new name) must be eaten away with guilt that she allowed James out of her sight for that fatal moment, even though she must know rationally that she is in no way to blame. My heart goes out to her.

They need bodyguards because there is a very real risk that they will be attacked.

If you look at oldiemum's link posted at 5:15:39, the very first bit is a quote from the mother of the girl killed in Norway. Her daughter was "stripped, stoned and beaten and left for dead". She doesn't understand why they did it but she doesn't hate them.

If this country was like that these 2 boys wouldn't need bodyguards.

Haven't read the whole of the thread, but i did read the News of the world article. I'm the same age as the boys and I remember when it happened, I was ten. The terrible,terrible things they did to that little boy,obviously they were ill in some sort of way.
The thing that most people were angry about was that when they went to 'prison' they had T.V's in their rooms,computers,etc.Then they come out with new identities. Have they really payed for this crime? Many people will disagree, but when I look at my children, I cant help but feel they have got away lightly.