James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

[suzywong]

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

They were 10 years old. Small children not even old enough to watch spiderman on their own. Why would you want them to be condemned for ever?

I'm going to agree to differ. This whole thing makes me really really angry and I dont want to fall out with anyone!!!!

I'm with you though gdg if anything ever happened to my 2 i could never let it lie.

I smacked my eldest a few times when he was young, when he started to smack his sister it was a great lesson for me showing that children learn by example not words.
If you are 10 years old and have been treated violently all your life without your granny, uncle, teacher or whatever protecting you and demonstrating what a loving relaionship is all about how can you know right from wrong? Violence sadly is normal to children that grow up in these extreme circumstances. Not an excuse but I just feel that we are judging by our own standards.

But were they both mistreated? I understand that one of them was, but what about the other?

I anything happened to my two year old I couldnt let it lie either. Just because I believe in rehabilitation and dont believe in evil doesnt mean I wouldnt be angry and react in the same way if it happened to my child.
I do know society would be a worse place than it is now if we were able to dish out our own punishments.

just found this . I'm not religious so i haven't got an agenda but some of what it says in this essay is interesting

I don't know, I think society might be a safer place if people were punished effectively for their crimes. There is almost no deterrent nowadays (not talking about this specific case).

There's a difference between people who have had their children murdered and people who are making the rules about these things. The first group of people are very likely (understandably) to want vengeance and all kinds of pain to rain down on the heads of the perpetrators. The second group of people have to look at the bigger picture - allowing such a violent reaction doesn't help society (look at the death penalty and America - doesn't work - OK, that's a simplistic statement, but that's basically it).

If it happened to DS I don't know what I'd do - I think I'd want to tear them limb from limb. But at the same time, I know I'd be glad that society wouldn't let me.

GDG - i agree

I've been avoiding this thread because it really winds me up, but I would like to add my voice to those of hercules et al.

What the boys did was awful, but they were children. Sometimes I think that somehow they are considered worse than an adult who attacks a child because they were kids themselves.

Apart from anything else they were educationally quite backward for their age: I don't think they did understand what they were doing - they knew it was wrong, yes, but all children do things they know are wrong.

What would be an effective punishment for this crime? Who is it effective for? The criminal? Society? Or the victim?

I think that punishments should be harsh enough to deter, but not so harsh that they take away all chance of rehabilitation. That way you strike a balance between vengeance and civilisation.

gobbledigook - I disagree quite vehemently. criminals don't usually think "well, I ay as well - I'll only get x months in prison if I get caught" - they don't expect to get caught.

If punishments are a deterrent, why isn't the murder rate really low in texas?

That makes sense Hunkermunker - but punishment is often not harsh enough to deter is it? Again, I'm not talking about this specific case - just in general.

There are lots of people who are 'in and out' of prison because actually they don't care - it's not that bad!

My concern about them not being able to be reformed would be because of the way they were treated by the public at the time and now eg abuse, stones thrown etc. How could "normal" adults do that to children is beyond my believe.

This is just such an awful thing. I keep thinking the same thing, I don't understand.

Granted these boys (at least one of them) had a dreadful background) however that is true of a vast number of people, none of whom go on to murder and torture.

Granted they were of below average intelegance, but so are vast numbers of people who can be the most kind and loving of individuals.

So why is it that things went so wrong for these boys. How were they capable of this when others are not? I'm not sure that I believe in the concept of 'evil' as a force, but what did make this happen?

People have posted that these boys were not responsible because a variety of factors were againts them, and that would seem to say that we are all capable of such awful acts unless something in society 'civilises' us. And I can't believe in that either.

I think a life sentence really should mean a life sentence.

I know this isn't hte same but just look at Bunglie and those other mums in similar situations. They have had their children snatched from them for various reasons and they are not even allowed to discuss it, and they've done fuck all wrong. THey will never have their childhood back and in many cases have no or very little contact. Yet these 2 men have murdered a toddler and now can carry on with their lives at the taxpayers expense

SP - I have several family members and friends who are police officers - they talk to criminals all the time and I can assure you, that's exactly what many of them think and what they quite openly admit.

I cant believe though that there is such a thing as "evil" as a separate entity. There can be acts that are evil but 10 year olds are not evil perhaps screwed up from their environment.

Message withdrawn

I fully agre, so what then, made these boys do this, when others with similar backgrounds do not? And this is honest bewilderment not a smart arse debating point.

But they werent adults with a normal sense of right and wrong. They wouldnt have done it in the first place if they had instilled in them our own set of morals. WHy should they be punished for that?
If these same boys had been raised in a "normal" household do you think they would still have commited the same crime?
I doubt it. My son is nearly 9 and wont be allowed out to a shopping centre on his own at the age of 10. If these boys came from okay backgrounds with parents who were responsible and knew they had lower mental ages then what on earth were they doing on the shopping centre on their own in the first place?

I too have come across people who are in and out of prison more often than I go out. I dont think it really is that bad if you're used to it.

In addition at a criminal firm I once worked for they acted for a lad of about 13/14 who had held onto a bus stop to support himself whilst jumping on his victims (similar age)head. Needless to say the victim died and when news came into the office of his death and the lawyer telephoned his dad, his dad's reaction was "oh you can't tell XXXXXXX, he'll be really upset" ! Actually the family were quite nice.

What a horrible world that would be socci where that would be acceptable?

didnt mean to add the ?

Hercules, I agree again. And I will bet next months salery that their parents were very quick to absolve themselves of their guilt in the matter, blaning society. tbh I find it far harder to forgive them than the boys.