James Bulger's mother demands right to find freed killers

[suzywong]

as reported in the \link{http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/story_pages/news/news1.shtml\news of the world.

Should she have the right?

Discuss

I seem to remember them talking about Chucky (horror film) and a Chucky doll - without being too graphic, that was what the batteries were for...to make him alive again. They were very disturbed, that's for sure.

GDK not you hunkermonkey.

No, I dont know the ins and outs of why they did it but I think it is a wonderful thing if they can be rehabilitated and given support to deal with their own childhood as well as what they did. Surely it is important to deal with why they did what they did rather than punish them. I just cant see any benefit to imprison and punish 10 year olds for any crime. To protect society I guess and to be able to counsel them in a secure environment.

GDK not you hunkermonkey.

No, I dont know the ins and outs of why they did it but I think it is a wonderful thing if they can be rehabilitated and given support to deal with their own childhood as well as what they did. Surely it is important to deal with why they did what they did rather than punish them. I just cant see any benefit to imprison and punish 10 year olds for any crime. To protect society I guess and to be able to counsel them in a secure environment.

Sorry to jump in here but at ten years old you have a certain degree of understanding of what is right and what is wrong. If you think back to the reports of what those two boys actually physically did to that poor baby and how much that baby must have been screaming in pain and fear, can you then tell me that these boys were not aware of what they were doing and the consequences it would lead to???

I can see your points but I'm just putting myself in Jamie's mother's shoes and if I'm perfectly honest, I wouldn't want them to enjoy another minute of life if they'd done that to one of my ds's.

It's fantastic if you can move on and let them move on too and I don't know how I'd cope with it as I've never had to deal with any such thing - my initial reaction is that I'd want them to suffer in the same way. Sorry if that sounds horrific but I'm thinking of my babies in Jamie's position.

We've had the debate in our house before about 'what if a paedophile did something terrible to your toddler, or even killed them - if you came face to face with them could you kill them?' I have to say I think I could but my Dad, a police officer who has seen his fair share of unbelievably horrific things, says he couldn't. I think I'd only have to imagine for a second the pleading my child must have done and I wouldn't hesitate for a moment.

But you are assuming they had the mentality of a "normal" child. They clearly didnt.

Sadly, Zephyrcat, it was James's screaming that seemed to be a catalyst to the vents that took place. I recall reading that the boys wanted him to stop and didn't know how to stop him.

No one is saying that Denise isnt entitled to feel the way she does. I would if I were her too but that is why we have a legal system.

The age at which children are held to have a level of understanding which is developed enough to allow them to held responsible for their actions differs between countries and even between states in the US. See this report, which advocates choosing the age of 12 and which specifically mentions that the UK's choice (10 years old) is very young. here

If they are really that severely mixed up then whats to say that in 5 years time they dont do it again in belief that they can commit such an despicable crime, go away for a few years and be given a fresh start and a new identity?
If they were that messed up in the head to have to do such a thing in the first place then how can we be sure that that element of their mentality has been 'deleted' and they wont seek out to fulfil whatever sick need it was that made them do it in the first place?

It also should depend on the child. I have taught 16 year olds who have never managed to catch a bus on their own.

Because they have now hopefully received proper help which should have been given to them before the event happened.

The justice system and the whole idea of rehabilitation would have to be very flawed if they could just commit a similar crime and reinvent themselves in a few years time again.

If I was in charge of evaluating them for release, I'd have made damn sure they were safe to live in the community again, that's for sure. I think we do have to trust that the people who've met these boys know more than we do about the whole situation.

I hear what you are saying but lots of people reoffend after being released from prison.

They were children. They deserve a life.

So should we never let anyone out in case they reoffend?

Ahh but they have aslo said that about 'rehabilitated' adult murderes who have been released then gone off and murdered someone!! I don't believe for a second that whatever it is that sets off that need to kill another human being in a persons mind - no matter how old or young - can just be 'fixed'.
There was/is obiously something very disturbing going on in the minds of those boys.
What about the letters that were published from whilst they were away - they didnt exactly show them to be teenage boys of 'sound mind'

Do children of 10 realy not understand that death is permanent? I think that kids have a very good understaning of what is real and what is make believe.

I think that what they did was wrong and that they very possibly knew this. But I don't think that this means they are iredeemable.

Before any posts I do accept that children are different to adults, but I am stauck by something I saw on TV a few years ago. I saw a program about Primo Levi, the writer who was a victim of the holocaust. He eventualy killed himself, and did so in part because he could never forgive himself fo having survived when so many others died. A second, unrealted program looked at the 'hangers on' of the Nazi regime. they were falling over themselves to forgive their behaviour and to excuse themselves. I was struck that it was the victim would couldn't forgive himself, but the perpetrators were only to quick to do just that.

I am 100% sure that the mother of James will never, ever, forgive herself for what happens. I only hope that those who are guilty, be that the boys or their families, have not been so quick to forgive themseves. And recognition of their guilt has to form part of the sequence of events that will allow them to 'atone' (for want of a better word) for their actions and lead a better life.

didnt james deserve a life?

a lot of us are also judging the age of ten as being an age that we all think should be one where we know right from wrong and , in an ideal world, it probably is. But if these kids had no moral guidance from home and they missed out a lot of it from school, then we can't really use 'normal' society as a benchmark, can we? We really do have NO idea what the two boys went through in their upbringings. I'm also not excusing them - i think what they did is sickening and heartbreaking.
I was 9 when my mum died (and i ws from a 'nice' family and was well-educated, etc, etc). It still didn't stop me from saying that i knew she was dead in one breath and then asking when she was coming back in another. I knew what 'dead' meant - i just didn't know it meant forever.

Depends what the offence was. No, some people are never released are they?

Jamie Bulger deserves a life.

They werent just "fixed". They've had 8 years of fixing and will continue to do so but not under lock and key.

I'm not saying people shouldnt be let out in case they re-offend, but we are talking about murderers. They have taken away a life - a life of a baby why should they deserve any sort of life???

I don't know the answer. I just don't know how'd live if someone murdered my child

Of course he deserves a life but taking away the life of the other two children wont give him it back.