I'd like to discuss the John Hogan case, but I dont want it to descend into a 'lynch' thread

[VVVQV]

It aint gonna happen, is it?

Quite, Kerrymum.

Great post by Madamez on misogyny a bit further down, too.

Always puzzled me that misogyny is seen as a mitigating factor. 'The bitch deserved it, she drove me to it, she was sleeping around', etc. etc. etc. Why is racism aggravating but sexism mitigating?

There does seem to be a promoted confusion here between "explain" and "understand" someone's actions, and notions of "forgiveness" and "pity".

Whether Mrs Hogan was 'seeing someone else', chiding him, etc or not is a moot point IF Hogan was interpreting her behaviour that way and was unbalanced enough to act so desperately and badly on that interpretation. Doesn't make his actions any less dreadful, but the court and associated professionals are asking the "why" question, and trying to determine if the evidence leads to a diagnosis of him being so disturbed as to not being responsible for his actions.

The pitch-forkers simply appear to want blood and guts, unsurprisingly.

So are we saying that the woman who jumped in front of the train with her children was evil too? Or is evil the preserve of men only?

The woman in question intended to kill her children just as the man in this case did. Does the difference in gender justify a different response?

I am not sympathising with him merely saying that he & the poor lady mentioned above were not in the full possession of their faculties when they jumped. They were NOT thinking rationally -at that moment in time- that is NOT evil that is ILL.

Evil is like the chap who waited for his wife to come home & THEN do it -he plotted it. Evil is Huntley pretending to be the concerned caretaker & making up bullshit stories about luring the two Soham girls into his house for his own perverted uses.

The plea for not guilty is a technical one- to plead guilty means he premeditated it & knew what he was doing, it doesn't mean he is not guilty about/for it or that he doesn't show remorse.

I don't agree that just by showing some understanding of mental illness & a degree of christian compassion for the whole sorry scenario it equates to me defending his actions. I don't for one ninute but I DO defend the poor mans right to not be judged by those of us who know nothing about the circumastances leading up to the tragedy & are just, as Pan says, getting the pitchforks out.

Stripey explained perfectly what Hogan was pleading not guilty to - murder. That does not mean that he denies killing his son or attempting to kill his daughter. I don't know the law there either but I imagine it is similar to ours insofar as there are degrees of unlawful killing, the different sorts of involuntary/voluntary manslaughter at one end and murder at the other which requires premeditation, planning - a guilty mind. I can't remember the exact phrase but the act alone doesn't make someone guilty unless they also have a guilty mind - blameworthy rather than remorseful.

Is this very difficult to understand? I can't put it as well as Stripey and bossy and others.

Vacua that sums it up perfectly!

Says he was the best dad his kids could have had.

Doesn't feel guilty for the death of his son as he wasn't sane when he threw his son out of the window.

All so so sad.

Very NAB3 -when he said he wasn't guilty he meant the sane John Hogan was not guilty as he'd never have done it if well.

He also said he couldn't blame his wife & MIL for hating him, but whatever punishment is decided today no-one could punish himself more than he does for what he has done.

AS you sya NAB-so so for all concerned.

It is just awful.

Poor Mia has to grow up knowing her dad killed her brother. She has lost her fmaily set up and her dad will probbaly be locked up for years.

Verdict expected today.

No not difficult to understand vacua. Stripey explained it very well.

It's down to the individual to read it and take it on board. Unfortunately, some people just wont because they have already made up their minds.

He has been placed in a psychiatrict unit.

he has been cleared of murder but will be sent to a psychiatric unit.

apparently he stood up in court and said "I am not guilty, because I didn't do it".

Innocent of murder

Innocent of attempted murder