Pensioner with undiagnosed Alzheimer's and tragic death of baby

[Kindofcrunchy]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-62503903

Can't believe there are no threads on this, or maybe they've all been removed so far, I don't know.

Maybe it's just the pregnancy hormones but I can't stop crying over this. What a tragic waste of life, easily prevented by family and friends of Robertson speaking up when they had concerns over her health. This just goes to show that there needs to be regular driving tests for people of retirement age.

I was about to say the same, plus she pulled out on a car, a moments lack of judgement that many make every day. I also do not think you can say her behaviour is appalling if she has dementia.

But to the family of the baby, there is nothing that can take away their pain, it is just awful and they and Louis are in my thoughts.

We need to end this absurd self certification for older drivers who say they are fit to drive, with absolutely no checks.

Anyone over 70 should have to see a medical professional, every year to say they are fit to drive and be signed off.

It could save a child’s life for fucks sake.

I cant get this out of my mind. It's too much for anyone to have to live through that. It's just too cruel. I hope that time might help but, I dont know how anyone would cope this. My heart breaks for that beautiful woman and her family.

I really feel for the family of the poor baby however @drpet49’s comment is harsh, people with dementia don’t show emotions easily , lack empathy, and become confused with the situation they are in, she may be unable to demonstrate her emotions.

mrs Robertson has been let down leading to this awful tragedy . So sad. There are no winners in this situation .

Do you understand that Mrs Robertson probably didn’t recognise that her health was declining due to the very nature of her illness?

What exactly do you think she should be punished for, and what do you hope it would achieve? To make an example of her?

It's a very sad case.
The poor parents.

But in the case of Alzheimer’s you don’t feel dodgy, you feel absolutely fine. In the early stages (like Mrs Robertson was in), you also are not aware that your health is declining any more than it would due to old age.

It can be really bloody hard to get someone to stop driving. It's not as easy as just "take their keys" or "sell their car" which you have absolutely no right to do unless they have lost capacity. A diagnosis of dementia doesn't mean no capacity immediately and doesn't mean you have to stop driving straight away. Unfortunately it can mean it's almost impossible for you to recognise when you should stop.

Lots of people with dementia can appear to drive very well, especially in the early stages. The "technical" actions of operating a car all seem to stay put but reaction times, situational awareness, focus and attention become more difficult. It's harder to notice and quantify these though unless someone is having minor bumps and scrapes.

The DVLA are slow. The forms Drs complete to say if someone should drive are rubbish. For most people with dementia their GP would only see them once a year for an annual review (and that often doesn't happen or is done by phone etc.). Even the test center is quite basic and I've known people be shocked and distressed their relatives have been told by test centers they can keep driving when they can't even remember the route to the local shops or the steps involved in making a brew.

Some sort of change to take some of the burden off families or GPs who don't even know the person would be great. Not sure who should do something though as the DVLA are god awful.

That’s a terrible tragedy but your lack of understanding of dementia is very clear. It is far from easy or simple to identify in what ways a person is losing their capacity, and that includes for the person themselves. Dementia is not a smooth perfectly predictable path of decline. It affects different people in different ways. And people aren’t deciding to drive when they know they shouldn’t - because they have dementia! They don’t know they shouldn’t be driving!

Thankfully the law doesn’t exist purely to satisfy the need for vengeance of people like yourself who seemingly wants the woman and everyone associated with her hauled before the courts. Putting a 70+ person in jail when they potentially have no understanding of the situation will not bring that little boy back. It’s a tragic accident.

My mum has dementia but she drove for quite a long time quite safely with it. She was a good driver. Covid put a stop to her going out and she lost confidence so stopped going out. We've now taken the keys off her. However, I take her out in my car a lot and it turns out she's a good instructor too. 🙄 Always telling me when to pull out, to watch out for cars a quarter of a mile away and to slow down! Grrr.
There's a definite lack of understanding on here how dementia presents itself and what abilities it affects and when.

Absolutely tragic. There's no mention about the van driver. He must be traumatised also 😢

Convenient that she was “undiagnosed at the time”, is that seriously a mitigating factor? How the Hell can anything that was undiagnosed be proved, and struggling with knitting doesn’t bloody indicate dementia. Unbelievable.

And I nursed two of my Great Grandmothers through it, before anyone tells me I don’t understand it. I do. And I remain glad that neither of them were able to drive, and if they had been, I would have done something, not sit on my hands like “oh well not my problem”.

I guess for some people not experienced with dementia they might think that signs like being forgetful are just signs of old age rather than dementia. And my mum was quite a good driver. I used to go out with her regularly to check. At the same time, she couldn't work the microwave. It's a strange disease.

This sort of thing terrifies me. I live in an area where there seems to be an unusually large numbers of very, very elderly drivers who are quite simply a tragedy waiting to happen.

Only yesterday I was near a zebra crossing when one of these drivers mounted the pavement when turning left, narrowly missing a baby in a pushchair. I was so shocked I didn’t think to get the number plate until he’d gone - I was busy comforting the mum.

Earlier in the year, I was driving down a local busy A -road, when the car in front of me suddenly slammed on and began to reverse. I obviously had to do the same, despite the fact there was a massive lorry behind me. It transpired that a car was travelling the wrong way up the dual carriageway; he’d attempted to turn right onto the busy A-road, in rush hour, and in his words, ‘I missed it.’ He was the oldest looking man I’ve ever seen, accompanied by his wife, who I don’t doubt was his ‘eyes’.

I see this a lot - the really dangerous male older driver often has his wife in the car, enabling him. It’s terrifying.

I’m so sad about this little baby. It’s only a matter of time before it happens around here.

I see this a lot - the really dangerous male older driver often has his wife in the car, enabling him. It’s terrifying.

The driver was a woman.

Yes, I know. I was talking about my experiences.

Thinking about it, the dangerous female drivers I see around here are usually driving solo. I guess that’s the average death age at play.

@Kindofcrunchy
It's no good if people just think "it's fine, I feel a bit dodgy but if I have a little crash I'll just get a slap on the wrist and get away with it".

You clearly don’t know anyone with Alzheimer’s or you wouldn’t talk such nonsense. Do you really think that those people have the ability to reason in the way you describe? A large proportion of people with Alzheimer’s are entirely convinced that there is nothing wrong with them at all.

As I understand it , the fact that this happened in the midst of the pandemic meant that she was seeing no-one who might have noticed the decline in her faculties. Of course, I feel for the parents of Louis, but I also feel for her as she clearly had no idea, and no-one around her to tell her that she was deteriorating.

Most people with early stage alzheimer's don't think there I'd anything wrong with them because they can't remember that yhey don't remember. Unless yhry havr a physical issue as well they won't be going to the doctor. My mum has alzheimer's and "in the moment" she appears fine but hang around for 20 minutes or more and you realise she has 3 or 4 topics of conversation on a loop. My mum's neighbours didn't realise there was anything wrong for a long time. My mum couldn't remember going for s brain scan a few days later so if she shows no remorse yhe chances she she doesn't understand what went to court.
Luckily my mum always hated driving and was keen to give up to save money but it was hard to get my FIL to give up. He clearly shouldn't have been driving but none of hos conditions were on the list that would stop his licence being reviewed or even required a doctors report. Over 70s can self confirm ok if yhey don't have certain conditions.

It's a tragic accident. There is no one to blame here, no one to be angry at, no one that was responsible. The lady had dementia and didn't know it. I don't see how that's convenient. It seems the very opposite of convenient for everyone involved in this terrible incident.

If she'd had a heart attack and run off the road, would you feel angry at her and want to hold her responsible? She had a medical condition that affected her in that moment. It wasn't her fault. She didn't do anything intentional.

I don't know how further tests of older people could even help. People can seem fine until suddenly they're not fine. We might be better pushing on with autonomous vehicles rather than relying on fallible human bodies to operate cars.

I agree with others that some people on this thread have a limited understanding of dementia.

There are many people using motorcars with many conditions, that should be stopped far sooner

if these people were using this type of machine in industry they would be tested regularly, Heath and sight also tested

but for some strange reason a two ton car that kills 4 a day and injures 2000 isn’t included

retesting every 10 years, eye sight tests every 5 years and lose your licence then a retest to get it back, theory test every 5 years. All paid for by drivers

I was shocked it went to court. There must be more to it. I can't see anything to gain from prosecuting this lady.
Thing is, it's hard to know at what point to stop someone. My FiL was showing his age but seemed fine. He had an accident that was totally the other driver's fault- indisputably, not just technically. Then he had another accident and can't actually remember what happened. We discouraged him from replacing his car at that point.
If there is a gradual decline, it's really hard to judge why today is ok but tomorrow is not.
And why wasn't the van driver partially culpable, if he swerved into a vulnerable pedestrian?

Tragic for the baby's family.

My thoughts are with the baby's family.

But it's also clear that some people on this thread have no idea of how Alzheimer's (or the other forms of dementia) present and progress. The driver may not have been able to recognise that there was anything wrong with her.