To think this is NOT a good example of why the law should change around assisted suicide

[LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet]

www.itv.com/news/granada/2022-07-21/pensioner-who-killed-wife-in-suicide-pact-calls-for-law-change?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR1ETDQNfb1DFNtznBTAi__qpBa-ivcvynJSwwAFXzaP3gFv6nRnyvsS_YU#Echobox=1658433729

A 71yo man slit the throat of his wife, who had cancer, and then tried (but failed) to kill himself. He claims this was a suicide pact.

he was found not guilty of murder but guilty of manslaughter earlier this week. He is now apparently campaigning for a change in the law around assisted suicide.

Now this case has utterly perplexed me. The UK definition of manslaughter is:

”a person is guilty of involuntary manslaughter when he or she intends an unlawful act that is likely to do harm to the person, and death results which was neither foreseen nor intended”

He did intend to kill so I’m not sure how that works out.

He’s getting loads of support on social media and some very supportive comments from the judge.

Personally I just don’t get it - ”assisted suicide” in such a violent and painful way, followed by the suicide of someone who is NOT terminally ill is not, IMO, a good example of why the law should change. I don’t necessarily disagree with the principles of assisted suicide, I think if we must have it it should be heavily regulated. This man says “nobody should have to go what we went through”. But he wasn’t ill, and it was such a horribly painful death for her. And being unable to live without your spouse, as he claims, can’t possibly be a good enough reason to have to legally commit suicide.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a horrific case and can’t understand why he’s getting so much support?!

It’s disgusting

you wouldn’t choose such a violent way to kill somebody you love would you.

🤷‍♀️

I don't know. Grief does strange things to people and if that's the way she wanted to go for a certain death and he wanted to do everything he could for her, I get the fucked up logic. If he's genuine, this will traumatise him. If he's not, he's already too far gone.

Exactly.

Three knives and a lump hammer were also found near her body too.

I wouldn’t want my DH to suffer but I can’t imagine a world where such horrific violence is preferable over other methods.

Although I agree it sounds horrific. Maybe if she could have had help to go peacefully it wouldn't have happened like that. In movies and stuff they always have a syringe or one tablet and they go to sleep for the last time. That's not real life, how do you help someone die peacefully without help or resources? And then live with being called a murderer and spend the rest of your short life in prison.

In a way it is a good example, it could all have been avoided if she could have just told her doctors she was ready to go and they let her.

I've watched someone die for weeks longer than they should have been alive.

I'm already occasionally wondering how I can top myself should I become terminally ill.

This man says “nobody should have to go what we went through”. But he wasn’t ill, and it was such a horribly painful death for her. And being unable to live without your spouse, as he claims, can’t possibly be a good enough reason to have to legally commit suicide.

Have you ever had to care for a close relative with cancer? Had to watch them go through dying? I think if you have, you can understand exactly how he felt and why he wanted them both to die. He's in his 70s, he's probably lived with this woman 50 years.

That being said, I don't think cutting someone's throat is a peaceful or dignified death and that makes me question how true it was. Surely he could have given them an overdose? That would've been more peaceful.

I do think assisted suicide should be legal. I think a person has the right to decide when they want to die. It would need to be regulated vigorously though. I don't really see why he chose to slit her throat, It's very violent. However, if he was watching her in pain from cancer, knowing she was going to and wanted to die, I can see how his grief may have overwhelmed him. If someone you loved asked them to end their suffering, it could be a hard thing to say no to you.
Assisted suicide should be legal and if it was, she could have chosen to die peacefully with family around her.

Yes, I have actually. And it’s barbaric. Which is why I said I agree with a highly regulated assisted suicide programme to prevent suffering. But I don’t believe there was no other way she could gone. And this man should never be anything like a poster child for assisted suicide.

And I don’t agree that someone who can’t live without another person should have the right to die in the way a terminally ill person does. It really doesn’t sit right with me.

Yeah I don't believe him. Of all the ways you could "help" someone to go you choose something that takes some serious grit and personality type to carry out. Not to be too graphic but you think about the actual act and what it entails. No. How convenient he had that grit and will to do her but not himself.

Overdose of whatever pills she was on? Or car exhaust in the garage.

Finding a method is not necessarily easy though... I think discussion of methods is against talk guidelines so I will just say It's difficult to get hold of lethal doses of medication, for example. If I wanted to die I would chose a method that I knew had a high chance of success, which might well be a more violent one. The reason more men than women succeed at suicide is because they chose more violent methods. All this would be a reason for AS to be legal, with appropriate checks made and the certainty of a peaceful death.

The need for assisted suicide is there.

He just isn't the poster boy for it!

Just think of all the meds she would have had that she/they could have used for a much more peaceful death.

I can understand his plight but surely you would want to give the love of your life a painless death?

I doubt having their throat slit is painless even if it is quick

This particular example is horrible, but in reality, "assisted suicide" does not go along those lines at all . In the countries where it is legal ( like where I live), assisted suicide is where you can ask a doctor to help you to end your life. It doesn't include people killing their partners with a knife.

I wouldn't be so quick to decry the assisted suicide movement, using such an example.

Assisted suicide with a lump hammer. Yeah right. Ok.

No he couldn't cope with seeing his wife die. But I don't believe it was consentual for one second.

Verdict was right.

I think his response is denial of what he's done possibly for a self protective reason but i dont believe it was suicide.

I think so too. I love my DH and children but I could never, ever do that to them even if they begged me. I won’t go through the methods he could have used because it’s grim as fuck, but yes he just happened to be an extremely violent person who also couldn’t live without her so he had to die too. It doesn’t add up.

That’s a really strange story.

I don't think anyone can judge unless they've been in this position.

Cancer is a cruel, painful illness and when there's no hope of survival it doesn't mean death will happen immediately, the pain and suffering can go on for months.

Yes his method was brutal but his wife's family are standing back him and supporting him and a jury took 90 minutes to make their decision and had all the facts unlike any article I've read covering the trail.

I hope and pray I'll never be in the position of watching someone I love die from cancer again because every night I'd pray it would be over soon, it was harrowing watching my Dp go from a fit man in his 20s with all his life ahead of him to skin and bone and being in horrendous pain and wishing for death.

Ah crap, I expect my post will be deleted at some point, I didn't even think that methods would (rightly) be against talk guidelines sorry.

Think he got away with murder.
This is why it should be physician assisted and regulated.
Don’t believe his story at all. Walked free from slitting his wife’s throat 😡

I heard about the case and felt some sympathy, but had no idea about the means he used to kill her. That’s an horrifically violent thing to do to anyone, let alone someone you love.

I think he’s a good example of why assisted suicide should remain illegal.
We only have his word that there was a suicide pact with him and his wife. For all we know she may have wanted every second of life left to her, but he was over-whelmed with caring for her and couldn’t handle her suffering.

I think you have made a mistake though thinking that he was convicted of involuntary manslaughter. He was convicted of just manslaughter pursuant to a suicide pact:

”Manslaughter can be committed in one of three ways:

1. Killing with the intent for murder but where a partial defence applies, namely loss of control, diminished responsibility or killing pursuant to a suicide pact.
2. Conduct that was grossly negligent given the risk of death, and did kill ("gross negligence manslaughter"); and
3. Conduct taking the form of an unlawful act involving a danger of some harm that resulted in death ("unlawful and dangerous act manslaughter").”

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

I watched my Mum die in terrible circumstances, great pain and distress, however, a day or so before she died, i burst into tears as i held her hand, she made a huge effort and tried to wipe them away as she done so many times during my life.
The nurses etc were brilliant and she was on a lot of morphine, which undoubtedly ending her life earlier than otherwise but i am so glad we had that moment.

She was a former nurse and told me many times how she had administered very powerful painkillers to patients at end of life, not to deliberately kill them but because the alternative was even worse.

I would support some sort of AS but not this, that was barbaric and as he called 999 before he tried to kill himself, i wonder whether he was really prepared to die?

I too find the method really puzzling as I imagine the average person would not have the guts to engage in such extreme violence. However by all accounts, they were a deeply devoted couple so it would seem he's telling the truth. At least I sincerely hope he is and that this is truly what she wanted.

I judge because I have stood by a friend who, many, many moons ago, helped her mum to die. It was quiet, peaceful and involved the slow imbibing of sleeping tablets and pain killers.

My friend took a whole day, sitting talking to her mum, loving her, as she slowly slipped away.

I sat watching her, making sure they weren't disturbed.

So yes, I judge.

In regards to method, it wouldn’t matter what method was used, the same applies we have no evidence there was a suicide pact. Method selection doesn’t evidence a suicide pacts existence or no existence,