Kirsty Allsop, Did you really say this? What were you thinking.

[VitalsStable]

Saying it was because of lockdown that WC could abduct, rape and murder Sarah. He would have done it regardless of lockdown.

I agree with her. Giving draconian powers to the police is dangerous.

Here in Mexico, they made face-masks compulsory in one of the states and the next thing you know, the police killed someone for not wearing a face-mask.

She has a point though - lockdown created the conditions that made it a lot easier for him to do this. I wouldn't get into a random policeman's car in normal times, because I'd have done nothing wrong, and think it was really strange that they were stopping me. However during lockdown I went round to friends' houses for dinner, drove over an hour for walks and visited family. If I had been stopped during any of those journeys, I absolutely would have complied because I was technically committing a crime and knew it. In fact I was always praying that I wouldn't get stopped by police!

[quote Cheesepuff1]@Seasonschange but there was no law preventing her walking, so she complied with this unjust arrest in the the same way she could have complied with any other one.[/quote]
@cheesepuff81 The rules were to stay local and not meet up indoors. There was dozens of stories in the news of police stopping people going for walks and fineing them for being out of area . Most of these fines were incorrect but people didnt know or didn't want to challenge police at the time. I saw one incorrect fine being given live on tv!

He didn’t kill her becaus of lockdown or because he was a policeman or because he was 3 times stronger than her. He killed her because he was a nasty bastard but all these things made it easier to get her into his car without her realising the danger she was in until it was to late. Maybe he would of killed her anyway or maybe someone else that day if lockdown hadn’t happened but it definitely helped him kill Sarah.

Really why do we care about KAs opinion?
But yes lockdown provided him with reasons to do it more easily. But a man like him would have done it another way eventually and maybe has even done it in the past. Its unlikely to be his first serious offence. You don't wake up one morning thinking yes I'll do this. He is a dangerous predator with severe sexual deviances. I would be very surprised if there's not a string of incidents behind him stretching back to childhood. He just hadnt been caught because he is probably very calculating. The typical psychopath. Just look at Levi Bellfield, he'd been praying on women including his own partners since he was a teen. Normal people even violent men don't carry out this kind of premeditated act, he is a very dangerous and sick individual who will be unable to be rehabilitated hence the whole life tariff.
What KA thinks about it is pretty meaningless and celebrity home show people really shouldn't be commenting.
I'm much much older than Sarah Everard but many years ago I lived on the road she was abducted from. I too used to walk to Clapham to go to the pub or meet, Just like Sarah. It makes me so very sad to think she was so unlucky on this night to meet a man like WC. If we had better policing and checks violent men like him wouldn't be in positions of power which facilitates their behaviour. Perhaps he would have already been locked up. And I very much doubt he was a lovely family man.

Of course lockdown made it easier for him. The same way London riots made it easier for everyday people to loot.

Chances are the nature of his crime and his previous activities meant he would have done it anyway but without the lockdown laws, the public backing of handing over an extreme amount of power and the uncertainty of that time meant he could do it much easier, quicker and without questioning from the victim. I am in no way blaming Sarah but before the pandemic I am sure most people would have questioned being stopped by a police officer for no other reason, than being out of their house.

No wonder men get away with it. Male violence is being excused on this thread. Men never take responsibility. There is always an excuse.

@GreatPotato

Without lockdown his victim was probably more likely to be a sex worker or a drug addict and then "we" wouldn't mind so much.

Exactly. Lockdown didn’t give him the motivation or idea, it just gave him access to women he may not have access to before.

He was part of the lockdown patrols in January, which likely gave him the idea for this plan in the first place.

Yes he may have gone ahead regardless of lockdown but lockdown gave him the means and opportunity plus fewer witnesses as there were fewer people out.

Had lockdown rules not been in place Sarah may have protested at arrest/ would have been far more suspicious. You are far more likely to comply with a minor accusation thinking you will sort it out at the station with a fine than being stopped for a completely illogical reason.

So yes lockdown aided him enormously.

He clearly used lockdown to his advantage. Yes he’d have found a victim either way but the confusing laws and emptier streets will have helped. She would have been aware that police has extra powers to arrest people for being out and this will have affected her reaction.

Of course it related to lockdown. It is impossible to say otherwise. Of course had there been no lockdown he might have still pretended to be the police but she would not have been breaking the law by being out so much less likely to feel he had a pretext to put her in his car.

@HopeYourHighHorseBucks

Of course lockdown made it easier for him. The same way London riots made it easier for everyday people to loot.

Chances are the nature of his crime and his previous activities meant he would have done it anyway but without the lockdown laws, the public backing of handing over an extreme amount of power and the uncertainty of that time meant he could do it much easier, quicker and without questioning from the victim. I am in no way blaming Sarah but before the pandemic I am sure most people would have questioned being stopped by a police officer for no other reason, than being out of their house.

This and whilst I'm here I'll mention that KA is a total tool.

@byvirtue

The police were given extra powers during lockdown that were ridiculous. Do you remember the two women who were fined for meeting outside for a walk.

I myself had a run in with a single police man in a rural car park demanding to know where I had come from and if I (and my toddler) had “stayed local”. Fucking ridiculous, he wouldn’t be there today demanding that information so yes I do think lockdown had a lot to do with the Sarah everard case it gave him the power to do it and unfortunately for her she didn’t question it.

I agree. Coronavirus increased police powers (with virtually no oversight) helped enable the environment where it seemed plausible to her and the witnesses that she could be arrested for walking down a road. That’s not to say he wouldn’t have done something terrible at another time but it’s a contributory factor,definitely. We do need to have the conversation that giving police too much power, without proper checks and balances can have horrific unforeseen consequences.

@GreatPotato

Without lockdown his victim was probably more likely to be a sex worker or a drug addict and then "we" wouldn't mind so much.

That was my first thought too. He bought that land with something in mind. Bastard.

[quote Cheesepuff1]@Seasonschange but there was no law preventing her walking, so she complied with this unjust arrest in the the same way she could have complied with any other one.[/quote]
But as she had been inside a friends’s house simply her feeling “guilty” of the accusations would make her more likely to go along with it. He couldn’t have known that when he stopped her though but it would have aided him. If she was stopped and asked where she had been and she said she’d been at a friends house she wouldn’t have reason to resist.

He'd have found a way to murder a woman regardless. He took advantage of a situation. What we need to address is rampant misogyny and the organisational issues within the Met (and other forces - the two issues I have had with policeman acting inappropriately were neither during lockdown or in London).

Of course she's not right. He'd have come up with another reason - claim she had unpaid fines, driving offences, reports that she'd done something wrong and needed to be interviewed, claim that she'd stolen something from a shop. He would have found a way. Men like him do

Do you remember the two women who were fined for meeting outside for a walk

The ones who’s fines were rescinded along with thousands of others when it was agreed the police didn’t actually have those powers?

He would have killed a woman already and may have already done so in the past. It made it easier for him to kidnap and kill Sarah Everard. So yes without this law he may not have killed Sarah, but may have killed another woman instead.

He took advantage of a situation to enable him to behave appallingly There are many other situations where he could have done so; but it was the Covid regulations that he misappropriated for his own perverted reasons.

I think her point is valid and merits a lot more thought rather than immediate criticism. Lockdown made people vulnerable! In many ways - and until the Left in particular acknowledge this we can't learn from what happened.

Empty streets, women stuck at home with abusers, children out of school - of course lockdown was dangerous - it literally put people in danger.

It removed community, it silenced people, it gave the police far too many powers - there is no point people saying its offensive/ tactless when the reality is that there are people who have suffered enormously in many ways because of lockdown.

He was a serving policeman who showed her all the "right" credentials to make any arrest seem legitimate, even outside of lockdown - e.g. "You match the description of a woman suspected of carrying out an assault earlier today. I need you to come with me to the station to clear this up." Why wouldn't she go with him?

KA behaved atrociously in hijacking Sarah's day of justice to draw a tenuous link to her anti-lockdown ideology.

KA broke lockdown rules constantly, and is a genuinely awful person. Lockdown is not why this happened, a sociopath is why this happened. If it wasn’t Sarah is would have been another women.

I agree that he would have eventually done it anyway, however, COVID laws handed him an opportunity.

He'd have found a way to murder a woman regardless. He took advantage of a situation. What we need to address is rampant misogyny and the organisational issues within the Met (and other forces - the two issues I have had with policeman acting inappropriately were neither during lockdown or in London).

This.

He could have just as easily pulled over a woman driver for something (like a faulty light or speeding- all untrue of course) and asked her to get in his car while he 'questioned her'.