Primark named as least ethical clothes shop

[givemewine]

here

Just interested in views on what we as consumers can do. Fairtrade clothes are limited and expensive, and some of us can only afford Primark/George etc. Yet it seems there's a terrible cost for those producing the clothes. any thoughts?

Bishopston trading do nice ethical children's wear.
As do people tree (although there is an odd gap in their sizing for toddlers. It sort of goes from babies wear to childrens wear with nothing in between. Susu Mama do fairtrade children's stuff, Its slightly hippyish but they do nice colourful jumpers. There are quite a lot for babies and toddlers around. Namaste have some kids stuff.

There are quite a lot of others too and most of the online ethical shops have a small range of children's wear.

"Well as long as your children are safe and well and not embarrassed"

Sorry I really don't like the insinuation that I don't give a sh*t about child labour. If that's what you want to read into my comments - then fine go ahead because I know that what you are insinuating is far from the truth.

And I don't give 2 hoots if my children are "embarrassed" - I DO care if they're bullied like I was.

i'd have to say about 90% of the girls' clothes are brought over by my parents from the US.

i have no idea where they get them and i don't ask.

beggars really can't be choosers.

chocholatequeen: so good, worth posting twice!
It's an ugly but necessary phase.

Maybe some people could soothe their concious by reassuring themselves that it is a necessary phase but I think letting hungry children work in those conditions for so little money is apalling. They work to satisfy people's need for cheaper clothing. Its not right

ppb - I wrote a really long post berating you for having another go at me.......and then realised that I actually whole heartedly agree with you on the "necessary phase" bit - it's absolute nonsense.

The question is: are the sweatshops the source of the problem?
If the sweatshops did not exist would those children
go back to doing their homework and playing PlayStation 2?

Answer is No.

Those children are working because their families need the
money for survival. If they did not work in sweatshops
they would work on the streets, shining shoes, selling bits'n bobs,
possibly getting drawn into criminal activity, hustling, mugging,
prostitution.

Banning sweatshops will not solve the problem;
you have to 'ban' the grinding poverty that
forces families to send their children to work in the first place.

and why do they need the money......because of the imbalances of Global Trading, in many places because of the legacy of colonialism (Western countries gave them their indepdence - often after bloody wars - and then left them to it), because many companies, even those who don't use sweatshops pay their workers as little as they can "fairly" get away with - I'm sure that most of the call centre workers in India aren't working in sweatshop conditions, but companies utilise them as they cost less than paying a UK resident to do the work in the UK.

All completely true, QoQ.

I come from one of those countries (well, thereabouts)
and I only have to take a stroll through the City of London
to see exactly where all the money is that has been
robbed from those people. My people, too.

But how to respond?
Become resentful, blame the British for everything,
live in the past and whinge about life not being fair?

Or do you respond like the Chinese, the Indians,
the Vietnamese and the Malaysians:
Put the bit between your teeth and focus all your
resources on developing your country and catching
up with the West?

exactly QueenofQuotes

Where can you honestly say you draw the line over ethical production? Where do carpets, cds, paints, chemicals, toys come from, to name a few? Should we all boycott all products that aren´t made in western/developed countries? And then where will urban third world workers earn money to feed their families?

I try to do as much research on products before I buy but do understand that sometimes the facts just aren't there.

But QofQ, where would you suggest they go to earn some sort of salary otherwise?

If people only bought goods ethically then maybe these companys would pay their employees better.

surely the point is that if we buy from fairtrade sources then the products do still get made in the same countries, usually because there is the workforce and the necessary resources there, just under better conditions.The more fairtrade products we buy the more there will be a market for it and hopefully the parents of families will earn enough to not to need their children to work too. A lot of the fairtrade manufacturers also support local schools and charities. You can get pretty much anything fairtrade if you really look for it.

I wholeheartedly support the fairtrade movement and have done a lot to champion it in my area with fashoin shows etc. But, the reality is that it is expensive and as a mum of three on a budget I struggle to buy all my kids clothes fairtrade, especially when I know (certainly in the case of my nine week old) that they will grow out of them rapidly. I therefore buy a lot in the sales - both people tree and bishopston do good sales and I buy second hand from charity shops etc. I also am a big fan of freecycle - I don't know whether this has been mentioned yet. This is a great way of getting rid of stuff you no longer need and getting stuff that you do - such as clothes. If you have a freecycle message board for your area, I highly recommend that you take a peek, especially for kids stuff. I found it by googling freecycle and signing up and I have got loads of great second hand stuff including washable nappies and clothes through it.

totally disagree with 'some of us can only afford primark/george'

buy from charity shops, car boot sales, ebay.
or buy BETTER quality clothes and less of them, and make them last more than one child.
accept handouts.
or get a sewing machine and learn to sew clothes yourself using bits of material from scrap shosp setc.
however all that is incredibly hard work. and many,nomost of us, dont have the time, energy or inclination to do so.
life is all about choices. and buying form primark, george etc is a choice. not a necessity.

fwiw, i cant afford to buy from primark. every time i have boutgh from them, the clothes have lasted two, maximum three wears. and price per wear, that works out a gazillion times more expensive than boden

hello all, i have read this thread with interest, and agree totally with pukkapatch.
I buy a lot of second hand clothing, from charity shops, clothes from ebay and even car boot sales,and have on the whole been pleased with them, and have saved a fortune.
i would much rather buy a second hand boden item than buy new from primark, where i could probably buy 3 items for the second hand price of above said item, but the quality is completely rubbish,and certainly not cost effective, plus knowing i am recycling so to speak, makes me feel, (that however small,) i am doing my bit as it were. I hope that when my dcs are older, regardless of income, they will do the same.

pukka, all these boot sales, charity shops, etc. can be very scarce for those living in rural areas and/or require a lot of driving to access.

i have been burned twice on Ebay unfortunately - once by a seller and once by a buyer - so it's not an option for me, but i suppose it might be for some.

like i said, i don't buy much for the girls as it's thanfkully mostly given to them.

I am certainly in favour of trying to buy ethical,
of being conscious of your power as a consumer to do good
but I am equally optimistic that these countries will get
through this phase.
In fact, they might have to go through this phase.

It's unrealistic to expect a country to jump from grinding poverty
to Scandinavian-style Land of Milk and Honey overnight.

Is that not what happened here in Britain?
It was only 100-150 years ago that child labour and the appalling
living conditions of the working poor were part of normal British life.
Not anymore, though. The UK got through that phase.

All without the encouragement of ethical consumers in foreign countries,
I may add.

Don't blame the cheap shops. Just because it costs more doesn't mean the workers are treated better, just the big companies making more & speading more on advertising & sponsorship. All your high street chains & big brands are at it. Primark/Tesco/George etc no worse than Gap/Next/M&S. If you want new & ethical, you have to go for specificly ethical/fairtrade brands & shops which seems to mainly be online & yes is expensive.

I personally can't afford to dress LO (or the rest of us) exclusively fairtrade. She wears mainly hand me downs & we all wear a lot from charity shops. I did suffer the same teasing at school as one of the others when I said items were from Oxfam. Read the label & tell them where it is originally from & forget the detour. I do fill in the basics & odd bits from the cheap brands so was pleased that Matalan did well comparativly.

I will not beat myself up about this. I recycle as much as possible (tho really want to find textile recycling place for those clothes past charity status). I use reusable nappies. I shop locally with the odd supermarket blitz. Most of my furniture is secondhand too. I love Ebay. We are avid Freecyclers both offering & receiving. It's true - I don't know where my carpet or kitchen really came from and I do like a kit-kat. Feel good about what you can do. We can all do a bit & it will make a difference even if we don't go the whole hog.

The only way that people are persuaded to avoid clothes and goods from sweatshop labour is to see the films or read about it. Until this happens, things will not change. I used to pride myself on 'doing my bit' until I saw the appalling conditions that children (and adults) are put through at our expense. Look at Chaga and the chocolate factory here
www.stopthetraffik.org/chocolateCampaign/chaga.aspx

or a report on coffee here
www.ethiscore.org/reports/free/coffee_instant.aspx

and then decide if you are still happy to buy into Cadburys, Nestle and all the other companies that exploit the poor and desperate people in the world.
Chris x

jessia - you're making a very sweeping assumption there- that because people don't buy fairtrade/ethically produced clothes then

A) they don't know and understand the issues behind it

b) they don't buy fairtrade or ethical anything else.

For starters if you come to my house for coffee - you'll be offered tea, decaf coffee or "normal" coffee, with sugar........ALL of which are fairtrade.

I'm not making a sweeping statement at all. People need reasons to change, nobody is going to more expensive goods unless they understand the reasons why they are doing it.

but you're missing the point jessia - I DO buy more expensive goods - just not clothes - as I can't afford to clothe my DS's in fairtrade clothes.