Primark named as least ethical clothes shop

[givemewine]

here

Just interested in views on what we as consumers can do. Fairtrade clothes are limited and expensive, and some of us can only afford Primark/George etc. Yet it seems there's a terrible cost for those producing the clothes. any thoughts?

The only thing that bugs me about People Tree is no free returns so can't try on things before I buy them. Love the clothes though - and agree about price and quality.

I have kind of figured that if you plan ahead a bit you can do ethical fairtrade stuff on a budget. Its not like winter or summer comes as a surprise. It happens every year. Plus the big fairtrade companies do have sales too so you can grab a bargain if you have it as a bit an ongoing project to remember to check when they are.

this thread is making me feel ashamed of my clothes buying habits.

a few months ago i got a catalogue from people tree and i thought to myself 'yes, more expensive but if they last it'll save me money in the long run, not least because their stuff is timeless as opposed to faddy.'

but then the catalogue got filed away in my place for important things, and time moved on and i couldn't find it. when the time came to buy new clothes, i found myself buying from Tesco and Primark without even thinking about it. and their stuff is only good for a few wears, then it joins my ever increasing pile of 'slobbing around the house, but not quite good enough to see people in' clothing.

well this christmas i've decided all presents will be second hand or home made, so perhaps it will instill good habits regarding how i buy my clothes as well in future...

and speaking of Naomi Klein, well someone was, how can someone so ethically inclined look so, well, polished all the time? Even with fame, money etc it can't be that easy to source fair-trade, environmentally sound clothes and makeup to achieve that 'relaxed power dressing' thing she does so well, can it?

People tree do lovely jumpers. Well worth having one as a rest of your life thing and then look after it really well.

I'm in at the start of the "it's okay to look crap and have crap stuff" movement!

DP and I have a mish mash of mismatched plates and bowls and furniture and sheets. Mostly seconds, second hand or kindly donated by family who were replacing their 'old worn out' stuff .

I am often told that if DP and I get married, one of the BEST things will be that we can have a wedding list and get masses of fab new stuff... why would we want new stuff? Not only does our stuff do the job fine, I actually LIKE it! I would hate to have a perfect matched dinner service from John Lewis.

I was quite shocked recently when two friends in their late 30s got married - they had both lived in nice flats and had everything you'd need... kettle, toaster, plates, iron... but they still had a massive list at John Lewis. Just getting everything again from new I guess. I found it a bit crass.

Umm... sorry about the tangent. I think the thread was back that way somewhere [points vaguely...]

Dh and I are on your campaign Broccoli but am not sure it needs to be crap, just not brand sparkling new

Everything we want to buy at the moment we are considering whether we could not buy new and make, borrow or buy second hand instead - eg I made some cot bedding out of my mum's old single bedding

Am still a sucker for the 'new' factor sometimes (but thankfully get the buzz as long as it's just new to me - so my coat is 'new' because it was my sister's).

PS our wedding list was a charity donation one

i know, Broccoli, i used to be more like that, in fact i still can be pretty 'consumery' if i don't watch myself. but it always makes me feel so hollow afterwards. i know it's a cliche..

No, you're right. It doesn't have to be crap at all - in fact buying second hand usually means I can afford better quality than I would be able to afford new - that goes for clothes and everything else. But I must admit I'm not terribly choosey about patterns and designs. I actually quite like a clashing mish mash. In my heart of hearts I hope it looks arty and stylish in a kitch, offbeat sort of way. I strongly suspect it doesn't though!

Right thats it Im going to get hold of that old sewing machine at my MIL's house that Ive been threatening to nick - no, revitalise, or something- for ages. But will I just get bogged down in how to get fabric that isnt made in a sweatshop? When you buy fabric from a roll in a fabric type shop is it made in sweatshops?

I just checked out the peopletree website. It is all v expensive. I guess I will try second hand clothes shops instead. But whenever I go into one I just see racks of faded red powersuits and musty old mens jackets. Then I open a magazine and see Kate Moss etc banging on about all their fabulous clothes from second hand shops. Can you dress well from second hand shops outside of Covent Garden? Does anyone know any good ones in Dublin, a.k.a the city that sometimes seems to be literally bathing in a giant vat of 100 euro notes while DH and I watch jealously...

m and s are terrible

cheap crap produced in rubbish factories in china and overpriced

still it is what you all want

Don't forget your local NCT sales - went to one last Saturday - brilliant way to ensure your used clothes, toys and nursery goods go to a good home - not just to a charity schop who may sell them, may scrap them - and brilliant way to buy stuff too. All unsold unwanted items go to local good charities, womens refuges, that sort of thing. Highly recommended.

no 'local' NCT sales around here!

please keep in mind that when a person lives in a very rural area they are quite limited in where they buy clothing, unfortunately.

especially now that it's gotten even more expensive for petrol and for many folks in these areas, public transport isn't an option.

Why is the article current?
It says it was published in Nov 2005 and I can't find anywhere where it says why it's in today's Independent

I've been thinking about this a lot lately too (see similar thread on chocolate here)

We are not loaded with cash, but I did think that actually if I were to by each DC, say, 4 tops and 2 pairs of trousers from an ethical company, then the cost would be closer to buying the current 6 or so tops and 4 trousers from cheaper stores. I wash every day and clothes cycle through the laundry process within a day, so I'm going to try this for next season.

Now, the trick will be to find ethical childrens clothes...it's pretty limited isn't it.

I went into Polarn o pyret the other day, which has gorgeous stuff (and is not cheap, but not shockingly expensive either), and I asked them if they were Fair Trade, and she said yes, but then she just told me all about how its environmentaly friendly cotton, which is all well and good, but I wondered if the cotton is then sent to sweat shops to be made into clothes?

I understand that for a lot of people it is an issue of what they can afford, but while it may look cheap some people forget the real cost. £2 pounds for a top may sound great but when it encourgaes child labour that just can't be worth it

PPB - well I'm sorry - yes I know about child labour - and I'm horrified by it - but at the same time my DS's need clothes. Our town charity shops are cr*p (plenty of them, and some lovely toys - but clothes - well forget it they're dire. So I end up having to buy cheap. And perhaps it's a "class" thing too - both DH and I grew up wearing 2nd hand clothes all the time - and we both got bullied about it (god knows how people knew - but they did) and I'd rather my children weren't bullied.

I don't mean to sound rude but letting children work ungodly hours in horrific conditions so your children don't have to wear hand me downs doesn't seem right to me.

read my post - it's not the only reason I do it. The 2nd hand shops in our town are cr*p (as are most of the other shops but that's another thread),

And as much as I'm horrified by child labour - I also recall vividly the years of bullying I had at school (which continued from Reception up to when I was about 15) for the clothes that I wore. I suppose it got "easier" as I was closer to my teens as when people asked where I got x,y,z top from I could lie - but when I was younger my automatic answer was "Oxfam" "Save the children" etc etc and it was truly horrible. I don't want my children to endure the same as I had to endure.

I wear 2nd hand clothes (when I can find something that fits me) - but generally I've found that adults are much more accomdating towards people that shop in 2nd hand shops that children can be.

and actually DS2 and DS3 DO wear hand me downs - DS3 is currently wearing clothes (apart from his vest and socks) which DS1 and DS2 wore. And DS2 has gone to nursery today in clothes that DS1 wore last autumn.

Well as long as your children are safe and well and not embarrassed

There was an article about the other side of the arguement in one of the broadsheets a couple of months ago. Not saying I agree with it, but in essence it deplored the handwringing and outrage of the moral middle class westerners over sweatshops, child labour and poor working conditions in countries that most of them know next to nothing about.

The author argued that this stage of intensive manual labour is a part of the process of development for third world countries, and that most European nations have had similar periods in their history where both adults and children worked in similar, appalling conditions (navvies/mining/weaving to name but a few). To try to stop such industry is essentially to deny these countries the chance to earn huge incomes using their own resources, which is a huge and expanding workforce. If third world economies do not get a chance to bring in some of the wealth from the western world, they do not have a chance to invest in or change their future. As an earlier poster says, the western companies generally try their best to be ethical and even handed, with the hope that these practices will be learnt from in third world countries.

`Tis Capitalism, as they say......

There was an article about the other side of the arguement in one of the broadsheets a couple of months ago. Not saying I agree with it, but in essence it deplored the handwringing and outrage of the moral middle class westerners over sweatshops, child labour and poor working conditions in countries that most of them know next to nothing about.

The author argued that this stage of intensive manual labour is a part of the process of development for third world countries, and that most European nations have had similar periods in their history where both adults and children worked in similar, appalling conditions (navvies/mining/weaving to name but a few). To try to stop such industry is essentially to deny these countries the chance to earn huge incomes using their own resources, which is a huge and expanding workforce. If third world economies do not get a chance to bring in some of the wealth from the western world, they do not have a chance to invest in or change their future. As an earlier poster says, the western companies generally try their best to be ethical and even handed, with the hope that these practices will be learnt from in third world countries.

`Tis Capitalism, as they say......

Well I don't have much of an ethical stance here. My DS wears mainly new clothes. My DD wears mainly handmedowns. If someone gave DS handmedowns that is what he would wear. DD is currently wearing handmedown skirt, top and tights - and her own pants and shoes. Skirt is Next, top is Mothercare. DS is wearing school uniform - all new. I could probably have got second hand trousers off Ebay. DS is in the same size school sweatshirt he wore in reception (he is Y2) so some of them are that old. I will pass them on, either to DD, or if she ends up in cardigans, to my neighbour's DS.