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Original poster

The words "pot", "kettle" and "black" spring to mind

101 replies

Freckle · 07/10/2007 10:13

See here.

I haven't watched the programme but have read about it and it strikes me that Claire Verity's methods are substantially the same as Gina Ford's, so why is she getting so hot under the collar? Unless she's afraid that people will buy CV's books rather than her own......

OP posts:
Poohbah · 07/10/2007 21:20

Great Poicywonk, will you check this out?

policywonk · 07/10/2007 21:21

Can't find any mention of this Markowitz geezer anywhere, and Tamum says he's not mentioned on PubMed. Guess we can only email the darling Daisy again and see whether she is prepared to elucidate.

Poohbah · 07/10/2007 21:21

What is his name? We can look him up on the GMC's website.

Tamum · 07/10/2007 21:22

Ah, we've just been discussing him on the other thread- there's no indication that he exists but that may be because we've got the name wrong.

Poohbah · 07/10/2007 21:25

Apologies for spelling your name wrong Policy Wonk. Will e-mail Daisy aswell.

MNHQ
AbbyMumsnet · 07/10/2007 21:26

Policywonk - I called Ofcom on Thursday and that was the figure at that point. Possibly more by now? Either way, they considered it a significant amount.

Marina · 07/10/2007 21:31

I think this is him

Poohbah · 07/10/2007 21:43

Great,

We have his name, Harvey Marcovitch was a full-time NHS consultant paediatrician until 2001 and latterly honorary senior clinical lecturer at the University of Oxford. From its foundation until 2006, he was a Council member and external relations adviser of the Royal College of Paediatrics & Child Health.

He is an associate member of the General Medical Council, for whom he chairs Fitness to Practice Panels.

Have a read of the GMC's own guidance....
www.gmc-uk.org/guidance/ethical_guidance/children_guidance/endnotes.asp#25

and he chairs the Fitness to practice panels????

Tamum · 07/10/2007 21:46

See the other thread Poohabh- he's a Spockite who sounds lovely, humane and up-to-date with cot death recommendations. Weird.

Poohbah · 07/10/2007 21:52

But he viewed this programme and didn't recognise the emotional abuse??

If he was up to date with current government directives such as the National Service Frameworks for childrens services and the GMC's own guidance then he would have recognised the abuse in this programme and done something about it!

choufleur · 08/10/2007 20:53

this is what the nspcc describe as emotional abuse

"Emotional abuse is when a parent or carer behaves in a way that is likely to seriously affect their child's emotional development. It can range from constant rejection and denial of affection, through to continual severe criticism, deliberate humiliation and other ways of verbally "terrorising" a child."

Think we should be asking whether they are investigating it. I bet if it was an individual doing the same thing it would be treated very differently.

Can't help think about the advert 'Miles is a quiet baby, he's learnt that no-one comes when he cries.'

islandofsodor · 08/10/2007 22:19

Despite some (well most) of her breastfeeding advice being rather suspect GF's routines are based on the average baby's needs. She advocates feeding at least every 3 hours in the early days, more often if needed, only continuing the routine if they are steadily putting on weight. She advocates lots of playing and cuddling, including dream feeds and advises extra feeds in between scheduled times if needed.

Claire Verity on theother hand might as well just advocate sterilisation.

Lovecat · 09/10/2007 06:52

Can I put my hand up and say I like GF?

If it wasn't for her I wouldn't have known about silent reflux, which poor dd was afflicted with - it took 6 months of plaguing the NHS for them to finally diagnose it, after 2 day's of medication she was so much better - I was furious that she'd been put through that pain for so long unecessarily!

I was perfectly prepared to chuck GF out if dd didn't like it, but she took to it like the proverbial duck and remains a very contented, happy baby. I don't think I spent more than a minute listening to her cry (couldn't bear to!), she slept well and we spent hours playing with and cuddling her as a tiny baby and still do if she'll let us!

Of course not everyone's child will do well on GF, but to say she's like CV is just so wrong!

WaynettaVonBlood · 09/10/2007 07:47

(I still love the fact that every article on CV mentions how she looked after MJagger's kids, and fails to mentione that she also shagged him, in the kitchen, and went public about it - classy broad)

GF fan here too, (apart from the SWMNBN debacle) but have't seen CV so can't compare.

Eliza2 · 09/10/2007 08:15

GF worked for my little girl, too. Now a happy, affectionate nine-year old. Not at all like CV, IMHO.

Theclosetpagan · 09/10/2007 08:21

No comparison between GF and CV. GF looks a saint in comparison.

I wouldn't use either - am too disorganised to have followed GF and too human to follow CV.

harpsicorpsecarrier · 09/10/2007 08:24

I don't think one can compare GF with CV. the CLBB and yes I have read the whole book OK does put limits on playing, cuddling and eye contact time and also contains some very worrying case studies describing babies (not new borns) being left to cry for long periods but althought this isn't great this really isn't the same thing as insisting that newborns to cry for hours oh their own and depriving them of physical contact and eye contact almost completely.
ten minutes a day - fgs.

theUrbanDryad · 09/10/2007 08:30

harpsi - did you watch last week's episode where Mia's mum was cuddling her in her 10 minute allotted time and saying, "I feel really naughty, I feel like I should put her back." why can't she see that this is not a normal, healthy response? ffs. the parents are starting to annoy me more than CV tbh, at least we know why she does what she does - what is the parents' motivation? twats.

harpsicorpsecarrier · 09/10/2007 08:41

UD I find the whole thing incredibly upsetting and shocking actually, to interfere with the developing relationship between a baby and its parents. those first few weeks are such crucial time. I don't think you can mess with that and not affect the relationship long term
and no I don'tundersstand why parents would agree to something so completely inhumane and against all instinct and common sense.I can't help thinking that there might be some deeper reason.
my mum brought up five children in the 50s and 60s and I asked her if she or any of her contemporaries did this Truby King thing and she looked at me like I had gone completely bonkers. she was shocked and upset at the idea.

theUrbanDryad · 09/10/2007 08:45

what deeper reason were you thinking of Harpsi? AFAIK they weren't paid for their participation in the series. i know that Mia's mum struggled with her first duaghter (it said so on the first episode didn't it?) so it could have something to do with that. However, Mia's mum, if you feel like you might struggle to love and care for a baby then don't fucking have one next time!!

WizardofWilkdom · 09/10/2007 11:31

'pitting against each other'

These are fucking babies we are talking about that will suffer the consequences to massage the egos of two complete and utter egotistical 'childcare gurus'.

Am so angry I can't type...

harpsicorpsecarrier · 09/10/2007 13:23

The UD - I mean that I would think that a mother would only agree to take part in that kind of experiment, and agree to let her baby cry in distress for hours, if for somereason she wasn't happy with her role as a mother, perhaps because she had a difficult experience of being parented, or had very low self esteem, or in some way had attachment problems of her own.
sorry, that probably sounds a little harsh but the urge to nurture children, especially little newborns, is so incredibly powerful. I mean look at the way even little children are drawn to babies. my two year old gets very distressed when she hears a baby crying and wants to try and comfort the baby.

Poohbah · 09/10/2007 14:31

I think that claire Verity seeks to break the establishing bond between mother and baby, then she seeks to keep that bond from forming by advising little contact and affection and advocating bottle feeding, then she instills the idea that baby's are manipulators into the parents minds to ensure the baby is seen in a negative light, the baby sleeps because he has no reason to stay awake.

Both of her parents accepted this with little resistance depsite have very strong emotions to pick up their babies when crying.

This abuse of babies is being watched on national TV and as yet no in a position to prevent this has lifted a finger. It is shameful.

Claire Verity MUST be stopped from working with children.

choufleur · 09/10/2007 19:16

shouldn't the local authorities were these people live be looking into this?

i think this is really serious. i know i've said this before - talking about the nspcc.

Does someone have to report an incident of abuse before it is investigated or can socail care do it off their own backs?

TwoIfBySea · 09/10/2007 19:59

So CV was paid £1000 per day to stick the babies out in the garden? Nice easy way to make a load of cash if you had no morals or conscience. Certainly a lot easier than actually looking after a newborn!

Perhaps this complaint is more to do with someone not being asked to be in the programme in the first place? Miffed perchance?