The words "pot", "kettle" and "black" spring to mind

[Freckle]

See here.

I haven't watched the programme but have read about it and it strikes me that Claire Verity's methods are substantially the same as Gina Ford's, so why is she getting so hot under the collar? Unless she's afraid that people will buy CV's books rather than her own......

She's the producer of 'Bringing Up Baby', and she now seems to be floating the idea of a programme pitting Gina Ford against Calire verity in an effort to see which is more 'effective'.

I haven't watched the programme but what strikes me as truly stupid about the whole thing is that how "well" any method "works" in part depends on the baby in question!!!!!

One of mine screamed and didn't sleep from 6.5 weeks to 6 months due to undiagnosed acid reflux which would completely skew the findings!!!!!! Also they are individuals with different personalities some babies really really need attachment style parenting others are really very happy on their own - my 2nd loved being on her own stretched out in her cot from birth - almost like "at last I'm not squished up anymore" didn't like being swaddled and loved sleeping far more than the average baby!!!

oh thanks

guess she is going to milk her 15 minutes of infamy/ notoriety then

in comparison with CV, GF is the soul of kindly mother milkiness

not anything i thought i would ever say about GF..

I'm confused....I thought Claire Verity was Gina Fords 'advisor'...I assume that is not the case?

Poor babies if they do 'fight it out' between them.

I second that CarGirl - I actually tried to do Continuum Concept with DS2 (partly because it seemed easier to have him in the sling all the time while running around after DS1), but DS2 had other ideas - screamed his head off whenever the sling appeared, but was happy as Larry in the pram. Oh well, I tried...

thank you policywonk -

My youngest self weaned off the breast at 11months, bleedin unfair if you ask me!

I think if you haven't watched the programme you will not appreciate how cruel and evil Claire Verity is. I don't agree with Gina Fords routines but Claire Verity really is advising parents to emotionally and physically neglect their babies and she expects a newborn babies to sleep from 7pm to 7am with just one feed in the night. I have been on a child protection training as I work with childen (as all professionals should) and her methods clearly are abusive.

Daisy Goodwin is trying to pass this off as a debate about parenting methods, because she knows that she is in very dangerous territory. Please don't let this issue illegitimise child neglect.

I read GF and found it helpful, think she has valid points on sleep cycles etc but I always always say to people to treat it as a guideline, the thought the CV is more extreme is absolutely horrific and I'm very much one in their cot, in their own room from birth etc (couldn't sleep with them in the same room!) but leaving them to cry/scream and not to cuddle them etc yes cruel and unneccessary! Or is it even worse than what I'm imagining?

MN gets quoted in that Times article today! We truly are the first port of call for any journo who wants a parenting quote...

just FYI, further down someone was talking about the paediatric advice that Silver River took whilst making BUB. the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health issued a Press Release (i cut and pasted it here, and have clearly stated that Silver River did not approach them for advice.

ALLEGEDLY the "advice" they received was from someone who was the press officer for the RCPCH (Marcus somebody) and that was all. they didn't have paediatricians and doctors or anybody else "on hand" to observe the health of the babies ALLEGEDLY, and as far as I know.

this program has been made as car crash television and entertainment, and the fact that they use newborn babies' suffering as entertainment is sick, just sick.

Message withdrawn

I think we should put pressure on Silver River to name their 'experts' - or ask Ofcom to investigate.

Pruners - i suspect that, indeed, a midwife and a paediatrician were asked for advice. the thing i don't get is that all the families did indeed receive the normal mw and hv checks (as confirmed by Claire Scott on the live chat on Thursday, i think) and i don't understand why they didn't put a stop to it, although i suspect that in the Truby King households they didn't know the half of it! i wonder if they're watching it now in horror. i would certainly be very upset if i was the twins' health visitor, and watched that programme now.

i saw Daisy Goodwin on BBC breakfast news trying to defend the programme
didn't make for happy viewing
think this is a tawdry mess with the lives of babies being messed with

also, Claire Verity was billed as "like Gina Ford" when people were being asked to take part in the programme (again, we were told this by Claire Scott on Thursday) so it's entirely possible that the "experts" were asked something along the lines of, "Would it be harmful to a baby's development to follow a routine from birth?" to which the answer would be, "No."

but IIRC, babies aren't visited every day by a HV are they?
perhaps once per week or less
i think they are trying to now rationalise what they know see as becoming a bit of a minefield
haven't OFCOM received hundreds of complaints?

I don't like many of GF's ideas, but she really isn't in CV's league either, imho.

GF said most of baby awake time should be lying on floor kicking... but that's still a long way from dumped in the garden for 3+ hours outof sight, out of mind. And GF routines are based on big feeds every 2.5-3 hours to start, not 4 hr gaps.

GF has also said a lot of loving things about babies, actually -- that they are "fascinating" for instance, and that if they don't settle to sleep well it's because they aren't getting enough food at the right times of day, etc. I mean, she wrote a book to create "contented babies". If a baby wasn't settling she'd figure out "why" and what they needed, not train "it" to go 4 hours between feeds regardless.

GF doesn't refer to babies as "it"... need we say more?

Ruby - AbbyMumsnet's article said Ofcom had received 500+ complaints (other sources are saying 250). My point was, maybe we should put pressure on Ofcom to investigate this specific matter of consent/medical 'expert' opinion, as Goodwin et al are starting to sound a bit desperate on this issue and I suspect that their arses might not be very well covered.

Message withdrawn

i had visits every day from my mw (for the first 3 days) and my hv until ds was 10 days old. but then i was deemed to be "at risk" (because i had discharged us from hospital and refused to give him formula top ups )

i think the "norm" is that the mw discharges you after 10 days if all's normal, then the hv comes to see you once a week for 6 weeks, but of course it depends on your area, your primary care trust, how many hv's your surgery has and how many babies they have to see, etc etc. as i said, i don't think the hv would have known the half of what went on the house, certainly i never told my hv i was waiting till 6 months to wean or that i was co-sleeping! i figured that what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her, and the other mums probably thought the same!

as for the medical advice thing, i suspect that Daisy et al may be trying to shift the blame. so when it does all go up in their faces they can say, "It wasn't our fault, we asked their advice," and point to the "experts". it'll all get passed around a bit and then forgotten about.

IMFO, obviously.

My hvs pretty much abandoned me after about a week (both times), when it became apparent that DSs were healthy and I was reasonably sane. They were hugely over-worked and very grateful to get me off the books, I think.

ooh UD in our area the hv comes once then the next official appt is the 8 month check if you want to see one you have to take them to the clinic