Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
News

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

The words "pot", "kettle" and "black" spring to mind

101 replies

Freckle · 07/10/2007 10:13

See here.

I haven't watched the programme but have read about it and it strikes me that Claire Verity's methods are substantially the same as Gina Ford's, so why is she getting so hot under the collar? Unless she's afraid that people will buy CV's books rather than her own......

OP posts:
policywonk · 07/10/2007 17:19

UD - But there must be some guideline (or even a law ) somewhere that states that it is neither legal nor ethical to subject people to dangerous practices in the name of entertainment, even if they have signed the release forms? Doesn't child protection legislation apply in these circs?

theUrbanDryad · 07/10/2007 17:19

andie - i think that's far more normal actually. but most of the mums i know who are at my surgery at the 10 day then 6 week thing, so maybe they're more efficient than they seem (i'm still waiting for ds' 8 month check!)

theUrbanDryad · 07/10/2007 17:23

PW - i think you've answered your own question there, unfortunately. there's been a huge stink created now, which is good, but people get bored very quickly and it'll all get swept under the carpet after the blame being bandied about a bit. sorry to sound cynical, btw. (how are you, anyway, haven't spoken to you in ages!!)

RubyShivers · 07/10/2007 17:24

Pruners - DG basically kept saying that they had shown the entire series to an eminent paedeatrician who thought is was fine
also, when they lady from FSID challenged CV's methods as possibly contributing to cot death, DG said that in programme two there was some sort of disclaimer about this
FSID woman said, well what if people don't watch programme 2
DG has no real answer IIRC

policy - i am more than happy to heap more pressure on OFCOM about this. My ref to the number of complaints already received was really to highlight that there is a lot of strong feelings which is good

policywonk · 07/10/2007 17:27

UD - oh well, maybe we can damage a few careers at least

(I'm well, thank you - how are you? I'm in awe of all that you and Morgan et al are doing. I had an email from a feminist list the other day offering free legal advice to women asylum seekers - I'll email it to you in case it's any use.)

barbamama · 07/10/2007 17:28

I say good on GF for clarifying that her routines, whether you agree with them or not, are not in CV's league (and aren't cruel imo - just rigid and difficult to stick to). If she has modified them slightly over the past few years in light of recent research, opinions and attitudes etc - then good for her. That is how it should be. It is CV who is insisting on using a method that was invented by a man that died in 1838 and takes no account of the vast amount of medical research on how new babies form attachments and how breastfeeding works that has been done in the 60 odd years since.

Pruners · 07/10/2007 17:29

Message withdrawn

Pruners · 07/10/2007 17:31

Message withdrawn

scarybee · 07/10/2007 17:34

Pruners - you can listen to Daisy Goodwin and the woman from FSID being interviewed on the Today prog (radio 4) here

Should be about 10 mins in.

I really have lost all respect for DG now, after that comment about CV vs SWMNBN. It's just sick. She wouldn't do it to her children, that's the sickest part

theUrbanDryad · 07/10/2007 17:34

(Policy - deffo yes please about that email, or you could email it direct to the nursing matters mailing list!)

scarybee · 07/10/2007 17:36

Apparently ofcom received over 250 complaints

Tamum · 07/10/2007 17:45

I don't suppose there's much doubt that they really did show it to a paediatrician, but a) it wouldn't have been that hard to find one paed who didn't disapprove of Truby King, especially if they got someone old and b) as long as the parents were happy to go along with it, as they seemed to be, it was probably deemed to be OK in the sense of not being outright abuse. There should still have been far more emphasis on the SIDS angle though.

I saw CV being interviewed on Breakfast and she was just ridiculous- her argument was that it's even more dangerous to co-sleep (completely bypassing the question of why she advises a separate room) and that she hasn't lost any babies. Oh, that's alright then, obviously a much bigger sample size than anyone has so far published

WorkingClassScum · 07/10/2007 18:15

Paediatricians are just people too and can have their own agenda. Besides, don't they deal with more physical issues so if there was no measurable physical harm...

Tamum · 07/10/2007 18:32

Quite. Roy Meadows, anyone?

Spiderhammer · 07/10/2007 18:35

Oh snort city! Priceless!

Sadly she'll probably win cudos with her protestations as she's shown herself to be excellent at playing the media like a fiddle.

Meglet · 07/10/2007 19:23

Ok, I have only heard about CV in the press and on here ( I decided not to watch it as it would wind me up) but she sounds like a right witch. I love the GF book, she seems far far far nicer than CV.

choufleur · 07/10/2007 19:58

i haven't read all of this thread (or all of the many others that are about) but it seems to me that daisy goodwin, CV et all seem to think we are all opposed to a routine. Routines are fine but one size doesn't fit all.
I've only got 1 ds and we've worked out a routine as we've gone along. It's changed as he's got older and works fine for us. I imagine if you have more than 1 dc you probably need more of a routine to manage time between dcs. Nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is leaving a screaming tiny baby alone. it's their only way of communicating and all they are being taught by ignoring them is that they might as well not bother as their parents won't go to them - doesn't bode well IMO for future trusting relationships.
Sorry if someone has already said that

morningpaper · 07/10/2007 20:18

During the Five Live interview last week with FSID and Daisy Goodwin, FSID implied that since the programme had aired, FSID had spoken to the paed in question and he was now "aware of the current advice and in agreement with FSID" or something - i.e. it sounded like he was recanting.

I agree, I think he or she should be named and shamed.

Poohbah · 07/10/2007 20:36

I thought Daisy Goodwin did name the peadiatrician in the Five live interview as someone called Malcowitz (probably spelt incorrectly) who sits on the board of the General Medical Council. I haven't had time to check this out. But agree that he should be named and shamed and it pointed out that he is breaking the GMC's own guidelines. I would like to know if he was paid to view it aswell.

IF he thinks the babies in the programme were treated in an acceptable manner then I think the GMC should ensure that he goes on a child protection training course.

Why didn't they show the programme to experts in the field of child mental health?

policywonk · 07/10/2007 20:39

By theUrbanDryad on Sun 07-Oct-07 16:51:13
just FYI, further down someone was talking about the paediatric advice that Silver River took whilst making BUB. the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health issued a Press Release and have clearly stated that Silver River did not approach them for advice.

ALLEGEDLY the "advice" they received was from someone who was the press officer for the RCPCH (Marcus somebody) and that was all. they didn't have paediatricians and doctors or anybody else "on hand" to observe the health of the babies ALLEGEDLY, and as far as I know.

policywonk · 07/10/2007 20:41

Press release in full in this thread

CHOCOLATEPEANUT · 07/10/2007 20:46

I did GF and its nothing like CV who should not be left near a rabid dog ever mind a baby.

10 minutes cuddles a day? FFS

Poohbah · 07/10/2007 20:48

Yes, but a statement from a professional body doesn't really mean that the Paediatrician in question has been held accountable and since he is governed by a regulatory body he jolly well should be.

policywonk · 07/10/2007 20:50

Sorry poohbah, was just bumping the information.

As far as I can make out, going on what UD posted, this man isn't even a doctor - he's a press officer. So:

a) Can the RCPCH confirm who this man is and whether he approved the programme, as Goodwin seems to be claiming; and
b) If he didn't approve it, or if he did approve it but he's only a press officer, who else does Goodwin have to back up her case?

theUrbanDryad · 07/10/2007 21:18

AFAIK, he is a paediatrician, but he's no long affiliated with the RCPCH. he used to be their press officer.

again, can I just put a big ALLEGEDLY in there. thanks.