Jonty Bravery Sentenced to Life *Possible Trigger Warning - Violent Crime Against a Child*

[AMemeByAnyOtherName]

I've just read in the Evening Standard that Jonty Bravery has been sentenced to life for his attack on the six year old boy at the Tate modern.

Personally, I'm thrilled at this outcome. But as he has ASD I am very interested to know if there are others who believe his sentence should have been different? I have experience with family members with high functioning ASD, but I can't pretend to even begin to know the challenges of dealing with a loved one with such severe behavioural problems and how a parent of somebody like Jonty would feel about this?

Please be assured I'm not goading here. I learn by asking before forming firm opinions and I would very much like to understand if I am right to be 'thrilled', or if there is something I am failing to consider.

I have ASD and I definitely wouldn’t throw someone off a balcony! He also has a personality disorder which I would suggest is a far greater factor in why he committed this horrible crime.

My brother has ASD and I am certain he would never do something like this either. The articles I have read haven't been clear about his conditions, do you know what disorder he has?

I absolutely do not think so, he has a history of violence and assaulting people- correct outcome, have they said where he will serve it?

@BooFuckingHoo2

I have ASD and I definitely wouldn’t throw someone off a balcony! He also has a personality disorder which I would suggest is a far greater factor in why he committed this horrible crime.

I have a personality disorder and I would never throw someone off a balcony either. It's as unhelpful saying he did it because he had ASD as saying he did it because he had a personality disorder which hasn't been specified which in any of the articles I've read.

@BooFuckingHoo2

I have ASD and I definitely wouldn’t throw someone off a balcony! He also has a personality disorder which I would suggest is a far greater factor in why he committed this horrible crime.

Absolutely agree with this, and I think it's so wrong that it's his ASD that's being pushed to the forefront

As yet I can't see where he will be serving the sentence. I had the same opinion about the personality disorder aspect though - countless people are on a wide spectrum with personality disorders and most I know would never do something like this, even if they were battling with urges.

Here's the link to the article, that probably would have been helpful from the start sorry:

www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/jonty-bravery-jailed-throwing-boy-off-tate-modern-a4480866.html

It's not very relevant here but I have obsessive compulsive disorder and it is quite severe at times. I am in no position to judge anybody with a personality disorder, ASD, or anything for that matter.

I have a personality disorder and I would never throw someone off a balcony either. It's as unhelpful saying he did it because he had ASD as saying he did it because he had a personality disorder which hasn't been specified which in any of the articles I've read.

Can I ask why you say this? Whether there is a discussion on mental health, say depression, and someone says 'well I have depression and am still able to work!' Doesn't everyone say that mental health affects each person differently and you can't expect your experience of mental to speak for others? So why do it here?

You may have a personality disorder or ASD and not engage in violence, but I can assure you that there are many who do. I worked for 8 years in a unit for young people with ASD, some with mental health issues, and we had violence EVERY DAY. We had to have special restraint training to deal with it.

I think it's right that he should be kept away from the public as he's a clear danger to others, but would like to see a specialist institution rather than prison.

the sentencing remarks of the judge are here, and they give a precis of the medical reports.

In cases where there is a possible mental health component it is usual, even in homicide cases, for there just to be two reports. The fact there were three (plus fitness to plead report) suggests extreme complexity of the medical picture.

You may have a personality disorder or ASD and not engage in violence, but I can assure you that there are many who do. I worked for 8 years in a unit for young people with ASD, some with mental health issues, and we had violence EVERY DAY. We had to have special restraint training to deal with it.
I'm disagreeing with the suggestion that the ASD had nothing to do with the horrible incident, that it must have been the PD.

Yes, I'm very aware of violence alongside ASD and mental health issues. I didn't say no one took part in violence, I was using the PP statement to show anecdata and personal experience does not mean fact. ASD can also cause violence, pinning it simply on the PD is not fair.

I think the 15 year sentence is fair given his guilty plea, his age and his ASD/personality disorders. He had ore planned the crime to an extent.

Also, why pick on my statement @MolyHolyGuacamole and not the previous one that I was quoting?

"Can I ask why you say this? Whether there is a discussion on mental health, say depression, and someone says 'well I have depression and am still able to work!' Doesn't everyone say that mental health affects each person differently and you can't expect your experience of mental to speak for others? So why do it here?"

Of course I know you're asking another poster but I just wanted to share my opinion here. It can be quite frustrating and somewhat depressing to see the media name 'specific condition' and in the next breath describe the crime that was committed by that person. It suggests that that is WHY they did it. So anybody else with 'specific condition' would become concerned that people will start to think they are capable of the same. Similar to religious or racially motivated attacks I can imagine. I think it would be a lot more helpful to either not mention the condition at all, or to clarify why the condition, in this case ASD or a personality disorder, did not cause him to do this.

Or should I say was not the sole factor in the reason for the crime.

@AMemeByAnyOtherName
You've put it very well there. That was what I meant, I wasn't saying it wasn't a contributing factor but as you said previously, it's a massive spectrum and there were obviously a lot of other contributing factors. I wouldn't turn around and say well, I have a PD and wouldn't hurt someone so it must have been the ASD either as it's offensive and untrue. I think the point I was making was slightly missed.

It's 15 years minimum. It's clear from the summing up that nobody expects this man to be released from custody.

It's such a sad case. It sounds like the incident was inevitable. It was just the choice of victim that was changeable.

I think, judging by the reporting and the sentencing, that he is a violent offender who represents an immediate danger to the public and just happens to also have ASD.

I agree that it is a very worrying case and I'd be very interested to know why his earlier ideations weren't reported and if they were, what was actually done about them?

He should never have been allowed to be out unsupervised. I hope whoever is responsible for making that decision feels responsible for what happened. Jonty is severely mentally unwell and this isn’t really his fault.

Some people are dangerous and shouldn’t be allowed in the wider community.

My daughter has a PD but wouldn't physically harm anyone else. When times are bad she is a danger to herself, not others. I also really hate when personality disorders and other mental health conditions are linked to violent crime in the media, it adds to the stigma. So I understand how you feel.

This lad was under the care of the LA and had multiple diagnoses. He'd stated that he was hearing voices and that he was planning to harm others. How much of that is down to his MH condition or his neurodevelopmental difference and how much of it is down to his own personality and wants/urges. Though of course then comes the question, how much are his wants/urges and personality shaped and influenced by his conditions? Who knows? I don't know him or his medical history. Its very complicated to untangle but its clear that he is too dangerous to be walking the streets and going by the judgement, he is very unlikely to ever do so.

He has been diagnosed as having psychopathy (severe form of antisocial personality disorder). This is what led him to kill. Prison is correct.

"Jonty is severely mentally unwell and this isn’t really his fault".

He has psychopathy. Like most killers in prison. Is it not their fault either? Psychopathy is not a mental ILLNESS and therefore the person is considered culpable.

It was known he was a very dangerous young man with form for violent behaviour. Of course responsibility for the murder sits with him but it shouldn’t have been able to happen, he shouldn’t have been out independently. The people who made the decision to allow that to happen Despite knowing his history are the true people at fault here.

@gypsywater antisocial personality disorder is in fact in the DSM and considered a mental illness

I haven't followed every detail of this case to the letter but I am sure I did read that he was accompanied whilst he was out, and he found an opportunity to slip away from supervision in order to do this?

I also clearly remember reading that one of his carers had had a discussion with Jonty, in which he explained in detail his desire to commit an offense like this. The carer recorded this and I listened to the audio clip. The carer said that he was highly concerned and took the matter to his superior, who decided that no action needed to be taken and the carer should leave it alone. At the very least I remember hearing in the recording that Jonty described wanting to go out with somebody accompanying him and then find an opportunity to assault somebody when he isn't being supervised. So assuming he was successful with his plans, I'm not sure who could be blamed aside from Jonty, with the exception of the superior who should have taken this very seriously when it was brought to his attention in the first place.

I hope he is never released. What he did to that poor child and his family. He went from being a healthy 6 year old boy to being unable to communicate, in a wheelchair and in constant pain. Compare that to 15 years in prison? 15 years is nothing.
He did it for fame and notoriety, for that I wish the news would stop mentioning his name.

@MolyHolyGuacamole There are numerous disorders in the DSM that are not illnesses...