Jonty Bravery Sentenced to Life *Possible Trigger Warning - Violent Crime Against a Child*

[AMemeByAnyOtherName]

I've just read in the Evening Standard that Jonty Bravery has been sentenced to life for his attack on the six year old boy at the Tate modern.

Personally, I'm thrilled at this outcome. But as he has ASD I am very interested to know if there are others who believe his sentence should have been different? I have experience with family members with high functioning ASD, but I can't pretend to even begin to know the challenges of dealing with a loved one with such severe behavioural problems and how a parent of somebody like Jonty would feel about this?

Please be assured I'm not goading here. I learn by asking before forming firm opinions and I would very much like to understand if I am right to be 'thrilled', or if there is something I am failing to consider.

@gypsywater the terms are used interchangeably. Depression is a mood disorder yet is a mental illness.

@SinisterBumFacedCat I completely agree with that sentiment. Allowing people fame and notoriety after such hideous acts increases the fascination for some and I'm sure encourages it. The next 'Jonty' will no doubt have been influenced by this one.

I really struggle sometimes to clarify how I feel about mental illness/PD/neurological disorders with regards to violent attacks. Personally I think that in a lot of ways, anybody who carries out a violent attack with malice aforethought should be labelled as having a disorder for that reason alone, separate to any other disorders that affect the general population. Unless the crime was committed after years of sustained abuse or another 'justifiable' reason, why should one serial killer be in a mainstream prison and another in a mental institution? I can't relate to either of them, even if one has OCD. But thankfully there's a good reason why myself and other opinionated people like me aren't allowed to make decisions about things like that.

@MolyHolyGuacamole For some conditions they are. For psychopathy it is not! Never ever is psychopathy defined as a mental illness. I use the DSM all day long for work!

I've read the sentencing remarks now. Thankfully the judge made it very clear that his ASD and PD were not the reasons for him attacking the poor boy. Her reasoning appeared to be very balanced. I do wish the media would make things like that clearer.

It also appears that he will be serving his sentence in prison with access to a special unit to help with his issues, on the basis that if he needs further support he can be transferred to Broadmoor hospital.

Thank you @TheTurnOfTheScrew for sharing that and providing clarity.

AMemeByAnyOtherName, he was allowed out unaccompanied for four hours a day. The Judge displayed disbelief at this. He has been badly let down by services.

Jonty was failed by a system that allowed him to go out unsupervised when he clearly posed a serious risk to others. This led to tragic consequences for a little boy and his family. This should and could have been prevented, but there were many failings. Jonty should be transferred to a secure psychiatric hospital.

@GinnyStrupac Hospital to treat which condition? What is treatable for him? You cannot detain without treatment. He does not have a treatable condition. Prison is correct.

To add, 'thrilled' is a poor choice of word.

My thoughts go out to the little boy, who I wish as full a recovery as possible, his family, the people who witnessed the terrible events that day and those caring for the little boy afterwards. My thoughts also go out to Jonty's family and to those who genuinely did their best to care for him and keep themselves and others safe in an incredibly difficult situation. I really don't think those who failed him, and in so doing failed the little boy and his family, should be doing the job anymore. I know I would not be, if I had shown such terrible judgement.

Well I wasn't at the hearing so I'll probably never know, but as I was reading the judge's statements she mentioned more than once that she was loathe to do anything that would give him the opportunity to apply for parole or transfer to another facility; she made it very clear that he is liable to manipulate people into early release. That, combined with the fact that she said he has been planning this crime for a year, leads me to believe that he probably worked very hard to get those four hours unsupervised in order to carry this out. This makes me feel even more sorry for those that were charged with his care. And that care supervisor... I believe something should be done about that. That failing is probably one of the main ones that allowed this to happen.

I have a younger brother about the same age as Jonty. My brother has severe ASD and co-morbid mental health issues including OCD, he has seriously assaulted adult members of my wider family in the past (including breaking someone's finger) . He has no impulse control and very black and white emotions and as he aged he began to physically lash out when he felt out of control. It's like he doesn't make the connection that actions like hitting can have lasting consequences like hurting someone (or worse). He is always terribly remorseful after though which JB does not appear to be.

I guess my point is that I can well see how someone with a multitude of issues like JB could lack impulse control and fear of consequences, and carry out a severe attack. In my brothers case I do think his autism plays a significant role - he has little theory of mind, he doesn't exhibit a lot of foresight and he can't control his emotions, when overstimulated. He is also obsessive about violent computer games/tv shows.

It's a desperately sad case for everyone involved.

Broadmoor is a hospital, a hospital that caters for lots of similar criminals with a variety of treatable and untreatable mental illnesses and personality disorders.

It's not as though him going to a 'hospital' means he's off to the local cottage hospital not that they exist anymore.

I believe he's already in Broadmoor(?) and that's where I suspect he'll stay.

TBH it is relevant if he has a personality disorder depending on which one he has, and the media should be clearer on that.

If he has (as it seems from PP) anti-social personality disorder that is extremely relevant to him committing crimes as it's effectively what psychopaths are diagnosed with.

The media needs to be clearer though as someone with borderline personality disorder/EUPD shouldn't be lumped in with people with anti-social personality disorder as though they're just as likely to commit similar offences as they (quite clearly to anyone with any knowledge) aren't.

@Checkers88 I really appreciate you sharing that, thank you. That's exactly the kind of insight I was hoping to gain when I tentatively started this thread. That doesn't sound easy to cope with at all. As you mentioned, autism can play a role but there are so many other factors that the media neglect to mention, which only makes it harder for the families I’m sure. It's very much something that should be considered on a case by case basis, so thank you for adding to my limited awareness.

This is horrifying and tragic case, my feeling is that this man should have been much more closely supervised

he had been regularly allowed out unsupervised for 4 hours at a time?
this man was highly desirous of committing acts of extreme violence horror and cruelty, and yet he was able to restrain himself, control his impulses, defer his gratification until he got to the situation where he could do the thing he really wanted to do.

This doesn't sound like someone who can't help himself, this sounds like someone who is is determined and highly motivated to get what he wants and what he wants is to inflict horror upon other human beings

I'm confused. The judge said his asd and pd didn't play a role in his crime.

Surley his carers were there to support him for those conditions, so how it it their fault that he commited a crime unrelated to his asd and pd? It can't really be both. If the carers are at fault then the conditions for which he has carers are relevant surely.

It seems to me that he was a deeply disturbed person and a ticking time bomb. He was obviously under constant care because they knew he was dangerous. Whether it was due to asd and pp is not really relevant as those are spectrum conditions. Not all psychopaths kill people. But it does reflect how we should deal with people that are dangerous but have not yet commited a crime.

I'd be surprised if he went to Broadmoor. Its my understanding that they are not sending dangerous patients there anymore because they are building a housing estate there.

@Alabamawhirly1 I'm not sure, which sentencing notes did you read? When I read the one that PP linked yesterday the judge had said that the conditions play a part but weren't the sole reason for the crime.

He was required to be supervised because he had attacked people in the past, and these attacks were believed to be due to his ASD/PD. However it seems he may have manipulated people into allowing him unsupervised time because he had an intention to commit this crime, which in itself is not in keeping with the unrestrained outbursts often associated with his disorders, so I believe that's why the judge came to the conclusion that his disorders were to be considered as part of his sentencing but not as the sole reason for the crime.

I believe from what I read, he will serve his sentence in a prison with access to specialised care, on the basis that if he requires further care or support that he will be transferred to Broadmoor.

I guess my point is that I can well see how someone with a multitude of issues like JB could lack impulse control and fear of consequences, and carry out a severe attack. In my brothers case I do think his autism

Except that he did a video recording in advance talking about what he wanted to do. It was pre meditated, and the carers failed him by not taking action to further safeguard him and the public.

I think ASD is irrelevant in his case. The PD could be relevant depending on the type. There could also be other undiagnosed conditions that add to the danger posed by him, all PD disorders are incredibly complex and difficult to diagnose in teenage years.

The poor poor boy and his family, I cannot imagine his fear, or how the parents felt watching it happen.