Grave Robbing because of Farmed Guinea Pigs!!!

[Twinkie]

Anyone else read about this - god what is the world coming to - this does them no good - actually makes me want to go out and round up a few foxes and have them ripped to shreds and then gas a few of the little rodents - these people are sick and vile and I hope that they get caught and get the life term in prison that desecration is given!!

In the last couple of days I came across a piece - which I can't find now - about a prominent female animal activist who is being treated for breast cancer with drugs tested on animals.

I so wish I could find it to post a link, but anyway she actually justified her stance along the lines that "there are no drugs available except those tested on animals and that makes it OK to take them".

I expect stupidgirl knows who I mean and can give us her name?

Sorry Jan, I haven't seen the article you refer to. I'm a bit out of touch these days.

The fact is that her not using them isn't going to help anyone though, is it?

Acer, how many times? NO, I DO NOT THINK GRAVE ROBBING IS JUSTIFIED. And it's not just 'a guinea pig' it's hundreds of thousands of guinea pigs and mice and monkeys, dogs and cats etc

I think it's a little unfair to single out stupidgirl for condemnation, even if you don't agree with her views or methods. "Ganging up" is what you're arguing against, isn't it?!

I have mixed views about this. It always amuses me when people have the idea that humans are somehow the pinnacle of evolution - what the world was working towards, when the evidence is anything but. We were just a lucky line in evolutionary history - an awful lot of "intelligent" bipeds died out before we came along, and we've been here for a teeny tiny fraction of Earth's history.

At the same time, I appreciate that I personally would not be alive if it wasn't for animal experimentation: I'm asthmatic (mildly now, but did have a couple of life-threatening episodes when I was a teenager) and highly allergic to several antibiotics.

Animal experimentation doesn't sit comfortably with me, but I see it as a necessary evil I really hope we can move beyond in the future. Animal testing for non-health reasons (cosmetics for example) is a huge no-no and I hate the hypocrisy of even the "no animal testing" brands who just make sure they use ingredients that another company has already tested on animals and proved to be safe.

"I have done home visits and I have done the phoning, but I would never harm or upset children."

How do you defend that then SG, how do you know that you have not upset young children - it may be their parents, their grandparents, their aunts and uncles, they may find it vvey hard not be upset and indirectly pass this "the fear" onto the children indirectly involved.

No, sg, her not using them isn't going to help anyone, but the piece I read (which I think was in the Daily Mail so of course shouldn't be taken as gospel) definitely implied that she felt that it was OK for her to use them, but also OK for her to go on protesting about animals being used to test drugs for humans. And who does that help?

Thank you Georgina, I am not asking anyone to agree, but I don't understand why it has to be sp agressive and personal. In the fox hunting thread two people said they wouldn't debate with me because I held 'extreme' views, yet everyone else is allowed to sling insults because they disagree with me.

Mumsnet never used to be like this.

I am not gangning up on SG, I think that alot of her views I agree with, I wish I was strong enough to home ed, but to phne somone or give them a "home visit" is beyond my realmes of understanding. And I say this with two sleeping babies up the stairs. HOW WOULD I FEEL IF I GOT A VISIT!!!

Very very upset.

Whatever my life choices are, i shall leave my children to choose their own, I don;t expect someone else to scare them into a different choice.

Kalex, the home visits I have been on were entirely non violent, just a presence outside houses. The phonecalls I have made have been against organisations, not individuals.

Janh, I can't argue her someone else's point of view with you. I've no doubt this woman went through a certain degree of emotional turmoil over her decision, and IMO in her position I would have done the same. Sacrificing her life won't help anyone, but I don't see why that makes her a hypocrite. It's not like she was begging them to go out and torture bunnies on her behalf.

Stupidgirl no-one's ganging up on you. I said as much in my post of a couple of days ago. I just can't understand why you can't see the connections here! You say you don't want things getting aggressive and personal? But what would you regard doorstepping and anonymous phone calls to be then (regardless of when you did it)?

I have been honest about things I have done in the past and I am being painted as some evil thug.

I'm sorry, but please reread the thread to get an overview of how it comes across (I'm not singling out any one person here, kalex, please don't think that). It's one thing to say "actually, I think you're very wrong and have you thought about how your actions actually affect other people", something else entirely to drag in irrelevant lifestyle choices as a form of attack and using personal attacks.

I appreciate it's a natural reaction, but I can't help thinking that the high emotional upset of this event is causing you (collectively) to pigeonhole all people of this group together in your minds and then pour all the anger straight onto the only person who has been brave enough to state that they follow the same cause.

stupidgirl has already stated that she does not support his extreme action. How many more pounds of flesh do you (collectively) require?

She says, effectively, "it was not right to test these drugs on animals, and it will not be right to test them on animals in the future, but in the meantime I will take advantage of the existence of these drugs which have been tested on animals."

??? Actually it does sound pretty hypocritical to me, sg, unless she is putting herself forward as a human guineapig to test drugs for future use - do many/any animal activists volunteer to do this? They do have to be tested somehow, don't they?

Janh, actually there are people who volunteer for medical tests, for just this reason. There are alternatives to animal tests.

TBH, I disagree that her stance makes her a hypocrite. This same argument was used when there was the whole thing about the Newbury Bypass (remember that? that was another one of my 'causes') and after the bypass was built there was an article in the paper saying "A protester used the road, ha, they're frauds, hypocrites, sell outs" etc. So, what? You never use it because you were opposed to it being built?

So, what, she dies because she doesn't agree with how it was tested? IMO, better that she lives to campaign for a change.

Incidently if I back out of this thread (or MN generally) rather abruptly I'm not flouncing (honest). Just having severe probs with pc crashing every few minutes.

So,sobernow, anyone who is involved in fighting for the rights of another species is either misguided or mindless????

'So, what? You never use it because you were opposed to it being built?'

Ummmm, yes! Isn't that what having principles is supposed to be about?

No, that's just shooting yourself in the foot.

So principles are only worth upholding if they're convenient?

I know there are people who vounteer for drugs tests, but are any of them animal liberationists/activists? They have to be tested on living creatures of some kind - surely those who object to testing on animals should be the first to volunteer in their place? I'm not just trying to wind you up - I really want to know.

Janh, yes, I know of ar activists who do medical tests. I've no idea how many do it, but there are certainly some.

Sobernow, I care passionately about human rights too, caring about people and caring about animals are not mutually exclusive.

Moomina, it's not about it just being convenient, it;s about realising that you can't change the past.