Statues should be left alone

[Rubyroost]

Ffs why target statues of Oliver Cromwell, Peel etc. They are history and should be left. Sorry, I know this is probably controversial. When will the book burning start?

Well do some more then. Try thinking a bit as well.

@Hearhoovesthinkzebras

I think that if anyone wants a statue or monument removed then they should campaign, lobby etc.

Are we really ok with people just taking it into their own hands?

People have been campaigning to have Colston’s statue removed for years, or even a replacement plaque that gave context and did not describe him as ‘virtuous and wise’, all to no avail.

@XingMing no one is saying history should be rewritten or that Bristol should be destroyed because it was built with slave money. But having a statue of someone who threw 20,000 African men, women and children into the sea on the way to their new “owners” is a bit rich isn’t it? Did it have to be out on the street?
No wonder it didn’t get taken down if 56% of people in Bristol have views like the views on here... I’m finding these attitudes shocking.

[quote Rubyroost]@SimonJT I never thought that the UK should have gone into Iraq and participated in 'regime change' but that's another debate isn't it?[/quote]
So you wouldn’t mind Hitler statues then or Saddam being put back up? Or are you choosing not to answer to try to hide your views?

Anyone seen the news...over in Belgium statues of King Leopold are being torn down....
(Cue posters telling me what a great guy he'was and how his actions in the congo have no bearing on today. .)

I can not believe they still have statues of him to be fair. Jesus, that photo of the Dad looking at his child’s cut off foot and hand. King Leopold’s exploits in Africa are like something out of a horror film.

I know pang ur. ....really shocking. The whole thing.

I heard that in Belgium people were cutting off the hands of Leopold statues and some might be left like that, as it changes the meaning of the sculpture and reminds people of what he did.

The statue I saw on the news was covered in red paint and had been torn off its plinth....

Fair play to them. Must check it out. I can’t even keep up with the news these days!

@SimonJT I don't believe that the regime should have been toppled, therefore I don't believe the statue should have been pulled down as if USA and UK had minded their own business that wouldn't have happened. As for Hitler, the German people decided as a democratic nation that they did not want those statues. Sadiq Khan has not sought the views of Great Britain and I believe many are keeping quiet on the matter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Milligan_(merchant)
Another one bites the dust. (Museum of London Docklands just removed this statue today.) Amazing.

Ooh, you can watch it being dismantled live. And look! By workmen. The “proper” way.

[quote Rubyroost]@YinMnBlue Oh I understand the arguments that racism is linked to slavery, but I don't agree. And racism definitely pre-dates capitalism. When people discriminate against black individuals today they do so because of racial stereotypes that exist in contemporary society and I do not believe these racial stereotypes are linked to slavery at all.
But, honestly I don't have an issue with what happened to Colston, but I feel that Khan's campaign to get rid of the likes of Peel and Cromwell is ridiculous.[/quote]
What a crock of shit.

[quote Rubyroost]@SimonJT I don't believe that the regime should have been toppled, therefore I don't believe the statue should have been pulled down as if USA and UK had minded their own business that wouldn't have happened. As for Hitler, the German people decided as a democratic nation that they did not want those statues. Sadiq Khan has not sought the views of Great Britain and I believe many are keeping quiet on the matter.[/quote]
So you’ve openly admitted you support the genocide of at least 250,000 people and the Feyli concentration camps.

[quote Rubyroost]@SimonJT I don't believe that the regime should have been toppled, therefore I don't believe the statue should have been pulled down as if USA and UK had minded their own business that wouldn't have happened. As for Hitler, the German people decided as a democratic nation that they did not want those statues. Sadiq Khan has not sought the views of Great Britain and I believe many are keeping quiet on the matter.[/quote]
You really don’t know much about history do you?

After the war, Germany was two nations, not one, and only one of them was democratic.

I suspect the statues of Hitler all went during de-Nazification by the Allies whilst Germany was still occupied. So not really a decision made by the democratic will of the native people.

Removing statues doesn’t change history it just whitewashes it. We will all be lesser for it.

People who were commemorated in statues were deemed worthy by past generations. Their philanthropy is inextricably linked to the cities, universities, hospitals etc they funded and which still exist and benefit people today. Removing the statue removes the visual history of how many of our institutions were funded and the uncomfortable tension between the suffering endured to generate the wealth and the benefit still being enjoyed today.

Walking through Bristol now, the monument linking the city and the slave trade has just been thrown into the river. Visitors and citizens can stroll on by unburdened by the knowledge of the past.

I think quite the opposite. The tearing down of the statue has revealed the whitewash that is our accepted history and gets us talking. Had you heard if Colston as a slaver before this? Of Milligan ? Of what King Leopold did in the Congo? I am guessing not.

@SimonJT I didn't say that did I? Why put words into my mouth? I said I disagreed with the 'regime change' USA and UK didn't act because they cared about the genocide!

Totally spot on @destroyedpeople. Fuck all people knew about Colston this day last week. They all know about him and what he did now.

How about we replace statues of historical characters with statues of the Brownie Leader who volunteered for 30 years in that street, or the Lollipop man who helped the local children. The GP who saw many families through years of care....

The list goes on. Altruistic community folk. Lets remember them and see their faces in our towns once they've passed on.

[quote Rubyroost]@SimonJT I didn't say that did I? Why put words into my mouth? I said I disagreed with the 'regime change' USA and UK didn't act because they cared about the genocide![/quote]
Keeping the ragime is keeping and supporting genocide.

@Destroyedpeople We are talking about it today as it happened this week. Who will be talking about a removed statue next year, next decade or century?

The visual reminder of the city’s history has now gone.

Not at all. The plinth will be there and people will say ...well this city was built on slavery....andsince the statue of the prominent slaver was torn down we have been able to discuss our history further because of the awareness that action raised...Doesn't 'whitewash' anything quite the opposite.

Banksy (who is from Bristol) has suggested that the statue is fished out the water and they modify it so that the moment it was torn down was commemorated instead.