Statues should be left alone

[Rubyroost]

Ffs why target statues of Oliver Cromwell, Peel etc. They are history and should be left. Sorry, I know this is probably controversial. When will the book burning start?

There would have been a few house slaves and so on.. ..but not in the same kind of industrial way ofc.

Ffs why target statues of Oliver Cromwell, Peel etc. They are history and should be left. Sorry, I know this is probably controversial. When will the book burning start?

We don't need a statue of hitler in Sutton town centre to know he existed

And I bet you didn't know who Colston was 4 days ago so it's obviously not very informative anyway

I think it is disgusting to smash statues down. They should be left in situ. Black people should be able to put up their own stairs if they wish to. Many people including myself respect the likes of Churchill, Sir Robert Peel and Queen Victoria and our views should be respected too.

I also actively support the abolition of slavery by making monthly donations to and reading the literature sent from anti slavery organisation.

Smashing down statues others respect is not the adult thing to do. You can't change history but you can change the present, which is why I pay to support the abolition of black slaves now.

There would have been a few house slaves and so on..

Are there any examples of someone owning house slaves in Britain, as they were owned in the West Indies.

There would have been indenture but this applied to white people as well. There are examples of indentured servants or apprentices running away and being pursued by the courts, with notices published in newspapers for their capture, but the vast majority of these runaways were white. Sadly they were often children.

Smashing down statues is negative and supporting anti slavery organisations who fight to get release of slaves now is positive. Leave our statues alone.

Smashing down statues others respect is not the adult thing to do. You can't change history but you can change the present, which is why I pay to support the abolition of black slaves now

It wasn’t smashed down it was pulled down.

Also most people wanted it down, they’ve been arguing about this for years.

A statue glorifies the actions of that person.

It is not right to glorify someone who profited from a trade in human beings, who oversaw the deaths of tens of thousands of people and came out the other end of it rich as fuck.

No.

These people don’t deserve statues.

Yes there was a pretty fine line between slavery and indentured workers true. I wd like to do some research.

DestroyedPeople It was never legal for anyone to be a slave in this country, or 'own' (sic) a slave in this country, during the years of the Transatlantic trade and the plantations. Traders and plantation owners did bring people back here to be servants and household members but their status was not legally slave.

This is why the whole 'it was of its time' argument is so flawed. The government here did not allow people to own others, many institutions always knew it was wrong (the bible forbids it) many social commentators knew it was wrong (Jane Austen, Mansfield Park) and many people simply did not know of the atrocities that were happening so were not in a position to accept it. It was a dirty loophole that enabled traders here to profit from something illegal on British soil.

@Destroyedpeople

Yes there was a pretty fine line between slavery and indentured workers true. I wd like to do some research.

And workhouses, mill workers, children sent to work in mines - sadly industrialised countries have a long history of abusing poorer people.

Isn't the important thing that we learn from history and do better going forward?

You can't change history...

Removing a statue isn't changing history dear, few historical figures ever had one to begin with.

Smashing a statue down or pulling it down. It gets broken either way. The last poll in Bristol was 56 percent wanted to keep it and 46 percent either did not care either way or wanted it removed. That is not most people wanting it removed.

The past can't be changed. Try changing the lives of slaves now instead of destroying things.

Act in a grown up positive way and pay monthly to get slavery stopped, like I do.

The last poll in Bristol was 56 percent wanted to keep it and 46 percent either did not care either way or wanted it removed. That is not most people wanting it removed.

If a smaller majority is enough for us to pull out of the EU surely it is enough to get rid of a statue? Why do people even care if the statues go. My suspicion is that it only bothers some people because those they would quietly but happily continue to oppress have won a small victory.

The last poll in Bristol was 56 percent wanted to keep it and 46 percent either did not care either way or wanted it removed. That is not most people wanting it removed.

I think voting would be the fairest way to do things.

If a smaller majority is enough for us to pull out of the EU surely it is enough to get rid of a statue?

Because the majority voted to keep the statue, not get rid of it...?

Anything that commemorates slavery or slave traders should be destroyed.

Just in the west? Or in the rest of the world as well? There must be many famous African and Islamic historical figures that were involved in slaving, slaughter and conquest.

Should we be looking to rename all the mosques and cities?

Couldn't the people of for example Bristol vote on whether they wanted the statue of Colston put back where it was?

Give people a few months to think about it and different people time to express their views...

If they do, that's okay. The council do that. If they don't job is done, it goes in a nearby museum.

And ditto other statues.

@EmperorCovidula

Ok, but are there any statues that we can actually keep then? Surely the vast majority are statues of racists, misogynists, homophobes, transphobes, etc. etc. People seem to forget how recent the emergence of mainstream tolerance and generally acceptable behaviour is.

But maybe there might be new people from history who could be commemorated? Maybe even some women?

But maybe there might be new people from history who could be commemorated? Maybe even some women?

Yes, because women are innocent of all intolerant behaviour.

Could you really find people from history who would be judged suitable by modern day standards?

Gandhi was racist towards black people, Baden Powell, many of the suffragette were from wealthier families - what were they involved in?

I have wanted to ask this question for a while, hoping to get a measured response.

MN's in Spain and Portugal. Do you have/or have had, the same issues we are experiencing now with our colonial past. The slave trade was effectively started by the Iberian nations, with assistance from African nations. How is this perceived in Spain and Portugal today?

Leave the statues, take down the plaque saying who they are. Replace with copy of Ozymandias.

Same question, why would anyone want a statue of a slave trader, responsible for thousands of deaths, venerated by a city centre statue?

My solution would be to remove the name of the person commemorated, and replace it with a plaque celebrating the artist who made the statue after 50 years. The subject remains anonymous, unless you research it, and the sculptor is credited. It's usually the other way around. But the art is what should last in our memories. Who gives a fig for what David was like as a person? But the statue is immortal. IMVHO.

A few posters earlier in the thread mentioned Russia, statues of Stalin, Lenin etc. So there might be some interest in Muzeon, the sculpture graveyard in Moscow. It's an odd place, and even odder after getting a kind of hipster refit. But, from what I've seen, it doesn't do a good job of placing the monuments in a historical context.

More at vocal.media/theSwamp/moscow-s-problematic-statues