Madeleine McCann

[morningpaper]

Instead of starting lots of new posts about Madeleine, could I politely request that anyone who wants to post on the subject please post on this one thread? (N.B. Duplicate threads may be flamed hysterically.)

Please note that this thread is not to criticise Madeleine's parents or family, as this is not in the spirit of Mumsnet.

Please can I take the liberty to quote from this article:

"This is the real life of Kate and Gerry McCann, and it must now have become a place of agony beyond all understanding. Pity them, if you have any compassion at all, and demonstrate the minimum of grace: the ability to desist from judgment."

I am glad I am not you because you only seem to see one side.They can never answer a question staright and after all this time still seem remorseless and play on the 'it could happen to anyone'

You too, Noddyholder.

You really all want them to be guilty, don't you? Why? Does it make you feel better about your own parenting? It couldn't happen to you, because you are not bad, neglectful parents like the McCanns.
Therefore if it happened to them, they must be bad, neglectful parents. And let's then take it one step further: if they were such bad, neglectful parents that they dared to leave their children asleep while they went to eat a meal within sight of their apartment, hey then they probably killed her themselves. Because they were bad people! And we are good people! So we can vent our nasty, twisted minds on this suffering family and know that we are perfectly justified in doing so. Even though THERE IS NOT ONE SINGLE SHRED OF EVIDENCE that suggests they are anything other than they say they are.
Carry on, I won't be revisiting this thread.

I am not a perfect parent but they don't make me feel better because I don't feel bad.They squirm at every difficult question adn they are hiding something.You obviously know them rosa otherwise why are you so sure?

"It couldn't happen to you, because you are not bad, neglectful parents". No, it couldn't happen to me because I wouldn't be so irresponsible as to leave three children unattended in an apartment which opened out on to a main road while I went to dinner.

No-one on this thread has said that they are perfect parents. But there are things that one might not do again with hindsight, and there are things that one just wouldn't do because it's common sense, and leaving three children alone to go to dinner is one of those things that should never even have entered into the equasion. It's not hindsight parenting, it's common sense parenting, and I am still that people don't see that.

as to whether the Mccanns are guilty or innocent, no-one knows. Just because you're educated and can talk the talk on tv doesn't make you incapable of wrongdoing.

so anyone who thinks they are innocent must "know them" eh?? How do you deduce that wild theory?

Good posts Rosa

Roas, the McCanns are guilty. Guilty of taking an avoidable risk with the safety of their children. It isn't like leaving them to eat in the garden. Presumably if they did that they would lock the front door. They left the patio doors unlocked and presumably their garden is not 50 yards from their front door.

I don't think they had anything to do with her disappearance.

But I don't for one minute feel that what they did was the same as leaving your kids in your house whilst you eat in your garden.

And I thought there was plenty of evidence that the restaurant was not just 40 or 50 yards away, but more like about 400 and with a pool in between.

A very, very sad situation all around.

Poor little girl, poor parents.

But not the same as dining in your garden whilst your kids are sleeping in their rooms in your house.

I'm sure they know that, and of course, quite naturally, they have to keep mum about some things out of fear of losing their other children.

But Kate McCann admitted that Madeleine asked her where she and her husband were teh night before when Madeleine and her brother cried for them.

And, sadly, they still made teh choice to dine out with pals and leave the children in an unlocked apartment which had windows and entrances they couldn't see from the restaurant.

VERY sad.

My MEP replied within minutes saying he had already signed.

I didn't say that anyone who thought theyb were innocent must know them.I said to be so sure when none of us know really.they have given endless interviews today and have travelled to washington but are unable to go back to portugal for a reconstruction.It is an awful case and one I feel will never be solved but it doesn't make me a bad person to doubt them and they have admitted they left them every night bar one so people will judge and criticise Such is life

mrs guy i am not comparing the situation to that , my point was if a parent whose child was abducted whilst the parents was there, back turned, then surely the amber alert would be useful and not 'overkill' as was said.
I am certainly not comparing what the McCanns did to slipping out of sight.

'They squirm at every difficult question '
that is because so much of what they say in the media is taken out of context and used against them
is it any wonder they are mistrustful of the media (whilst at the same time knowing it is the only way to keep awareness of their daughter going) when they have had such horrid things written about them?

Agree Posie , last night she said she hated putting herself forward and prefers to be in the background but she does it for Madeline, maybe that's why she is 'uncomfortable'

I think the Amber Alert needs a t more careful consideration,a dn needs to be separated from the emotioanl knee jerk reaction that the MM case has provoked.
We are just about the enter the 'swimming pool drowning season'
EVERY year we now start to have cases where toddlers wander off and drown in grandparents/neighbours/holiday homes swimming pool. So rarely that it meakes headline news is there a genuine abduction case. MM is not yet known to be an abduction. Shannon's was not, even tho' everyone leapt to that conculsion as a knee jerk reaction.
The really serious point to get across to parents, that cannot be overstated is that toddlers cannot assess risk, and so should not be left alone. I would have more respect for the McCs if they backed a serious campaign of ciom uunication amlong those lines - but the won't, for obvious reasons.

We all do things that with hindsight are wrong. A friend?s two year old fell off a climbing frame last week, with hindsight, she says she shouldn?t have let him go up there because he?s still too little.

For the Mccanns that hindsight should have come on the morning when Madeleine asked why they hadn?t come when she cried.

I can see how being on holiday might create a false sense of security over leaving your children. How if other people do it, you might decide that it was ok, might become more relaxed as the evenings went on. But for me the turning point would have come on that morning when Madeleine asked why no-one came when she cried. How could a parent still go out and leave their children knowing that they had previously cried for them and they hadn?t been there? How could they have gone out again after that? That is what I fail to understand.

i think the Amber Alert is definitely a good idea.

it has truly saved lives in the US. well and truly.

children who were literally minutes away from being killed by their abductors.

Mrs G Of G - I am refering to your wed 30th april 19.04pm post.

How wonderful it must be to lead such a perfect life as your own, to have never done anything you regret. Gerry and Kate mccann made a mistake and the consequences from that mistake will haunt them every single day of their lives.

As for the amber alerts being a red herring, i can only imagine, but when your child goes missing, you do everything you can to "feel" helpful.

If you could climb down off your high horse to be with us mere mortals for just one minute, are you so unbelievably arrogant, that you can honestly say you have never made a mistake, never been wrong?

You are a disgrace!

I agree with whatsthestorymorningglory - I feel terribly sad about what they must be going through - the loss of a child is the worst thing that can happen to a parent, but I feel sadder for Madeline. She was totally reliant on her parents to protect and keep her safe and I think that they failed in their duty of care to her.
I heard on the radio this morning an interview with the police superintendant who was involved in the Jamie Bulger case and he has had some involvement with the mm case too. He was generally very supportive of the Mccanns but even he said that there were reports from witnesses who had been concerned at hearing the children crying, alone in the apartment for several nights of the holiday. I believe that there was so much concern that Mark Warner reps had to get involved and tried to offer the Mccanns the on site baby sitting service, which they refused. I find this very hard to support them over - yes we can all make a mistake but to know that your children are crying and alone night after night but still carry on with your socialising, I find hard to stomach.

He also said that they would be better served not traipsing round the tv studios at the minute but should spend the time going back to Portugal for the reconstruction.

This is the first and last time I will post on this thread. Just wanted to thank Shabster for her heart-rending posts.

I nearly lost one of my 4yo twins to a car accident and it was my fault. I was not holding his hand when we were crossing the road, he ran ahead, a lorry came speeding towards us, I screamed and by the grace of God he turned and ran back to me. If he hadn't, he would now be dead and it would have been my fault. I have been given a second chance and never will I make that mistake again.

My heart goes out to the Mccanns and I pray that they find their precious daughter.

I sit here wanting to reach into my computer and shake some of the smug, self-satisfied posters who have no room in their hearts for compassion or space in their heads for anything other than lazy, sloppy "soap-opera style" conspiracy theories.

1- Sympathy for the McCanns does not preclude sympathy for Madeleine. I can feel both. Any normally compassionate person can.

2- I don't know that they are innocent but is my opinion that they are. My view is supported by the lack of charges, despite their continued "arguido" status. My sympathy for them is, of course, conditional on me being right about this but until proved otherwise, the compassionate and rational course is to assume their innocence.

3- The Amber Alert system is of proven benefit in the States. If Madeleine was abducted, such a system might have led to her recovery before now. Other children will be abducted, sadly, so we ought to have a system proven to be so effective. Anyone who cannot see past their prejudice against the McCanns to consider the scheme on its own merits is, frankly, too stupid for words.

4- The McCanns made a grave misjudgement on the night of May 3rd 2007 for which they, their daughter, and their entire family continue to pay the price. To read what some of you say, they deserved to lose Madeleine because of this. This is beneath contempt.

5- You have to make up your minds,those of you for whom the McCanns just have to be guilty. Either they left her unattended and she was abducted - in which case their "crime" was to leave the children inadequately supervised or they had an active part in causing her to disappear - in which case they are guilty of a far graver crime. You can try all you like but you can't have it both ways.

I would also like to say that I watched again the footage shown as part of last night's documentary of Kate & Gerry McCann in their earliest press conferences. For me it simply beggars belief that anyone could have thought them unemotional. I thought Kate McCann looked like she was barely in control when she was making that appeal to the abductor.

In the more recent interviews, I thought she, in particular, just looked like the saddest person I've ever seen.

IMO it is so frustrating and some people may find it hard to be completely sympathetic as this was a situation that was avoidable.

Of course it was avoidable. That doesn't alter the fact that the McCanns did not deserve to lose their daughter and to fail to feel sympathy for that loss is unfair to the McCanns.