Toddler drowns at health club pool - apportioning blame ?

[thetideishigh]

This article really resonated with me on a couple of levels

metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-boy-3-drowned-david-lloyd-pool-says-death-prevented-12218854/.

When my kids were little I insisted that any swimming trips involved 2 adults as I'm not a strong swimmer myself and my dh was lax in his alertness to danger when in sole charge of just two kids ("daddy daycare" was responsible for ALL of our trips to A & E for the kids up to the age of 7).

One of my dc qualified and worked (only part time) as a lifeguard from the age of 16 + 1/2. They were a very serious/responsible child, with the maturity of someone much older according to their teachers and other independent adult observations.

Their younger sibling now also wants to train as a lifeguard so that they can earn a little extra money. They are fairly mature for their age so I was inclined to say yes to funding the training until I read the linked article.

It's set me wondering whether 16/17 year olds are too young for lifeguarding (although my dc is currently more responsible in their attitude to life stuff than a great many 18-21 year olds I know.

I also wonder how the dad came to lose sight of the 3 year old for long enough for him to wander off and fall in to the main pool. I never relaxed at the pool with the kids until they were better swimmers than me. I was a constant personal lifeguard to them on such trips but mostly because of my fears, not because of their behaviour.

What do people think ?

Really disagree with attempts to blame this on the lifeguard. It's hard to see things under the water, if he was at the wrong angle he may not have been able to see. The lifeguard can't watch every person at the same time. If he was looking at one group of people he wouldn't notice a toddler falling in at the other side.

Just to clarify I don't think it was in anyway the life guards fault. I don't think the family are trying to blame him directly. But the father seems to be trying to deflect fro his own negligence. Losing a child will hopefully be a wake up to be more vigilant. It's pretty low to try to deflect responsibility but I understand why he's doing it. Poor little boy. Just so sad.

It's also really shocking they're doing media blaming the club etc. The brass neck of it! I don't know how his wife can sit next to him and talk about tougher regulations when he took his eyes off the child and he died as a result.

It would shock you how common it is for children to wander out when you are pulling your stuff out of lockers, getting other children ready.

It happens all the time.

If that child was nervous about getting in I suspect her leaned forward to touch the water (which happens) and slipped in head first barely making a sound.

He**

I think the dad is getting an unfair pasting here. There should be safety nets so that accidents can be prevented as far as possible.

Also - James Bulger? Ben Needham - countless missing toddlers globally. Their carers turned away for a second and it would be heartless to blame them.

If the council think there's a case to answer there may well have been a better safety net possible so a child didn't die as a result of slipping away

The lifeguard's job is to rescue people in difficulty in the water, not to supervise every toddler in the building. Thats the parent's job I'm afraid

You have no idea what the role of a life a life guard is. Everybody that is in or directly around the pool IS the lifeguards responsibility- and they are not there just to save lives. There are also there to prevent it before it happens.

And yes you should be able to see all points of the pool - because you should be waking around. Not sat down OR stood still.

Walking**

Carcasonnenewbie FattyFatCakes has described up thread how the DLL club that she is a member of has a lifeguard chair.

I imagine that she means the high ones, which allow better visibility across the pool.

If the lifeguard was provided with a chair, why on earth would be be walking around?

And even if he was, as a lone worker, he would have had his back to part of the pool/surroundings at some point.

I'm guessing that he didn't choose to be working alone. Other posters have said that some DLL clubs have either one lifeguard supervising three pools or none at all during adults only sessions.

I honestly have no idea why you, despite the inquest findings and the other information in the public domain which don't apportion blame to the lifeguard, seem intent on blaming this one person.

@Carcassonenewbie your suggestion sounds sensible but I don't recall ever seeing lifeguards patrolling the pool. They just sit in chairs at my local pools.

As a swimming teacher who is reach and rescued trained, it was the responsibility of the life guard, he had a duty of care to ensure the safety of those in the pool. They have extensive training for these situation. The fact the child was rescued by the father says it all the lifeguard failed to spot the child enter the poolside, struggle in the water and the childs body at the bottom of the pool, his death could have been prevented. There was no attempt made by the lifeguard to perform the rescue. We have NLPQ training every 3 weeks for rescues and first aid.

That isn't what the inquest found, nor the conclusion of the child's family who know far more about the details than anyone else.

The child's death could have been prevented by the parent putting on the child's life jacket before he went near the pool or not taking his eyes off the child for a second.

Sadly, so sadly, accidents do happen and I'm sure that the family will never recover fully from this.

The lifeguard did of course have a duty of care which would have been located within the framework of his employer ie training, correct ratios, safe poolside procedures for waiting for swimming lessons etc.

Other than a few posters on here, no-one is suggesting that the lifeguard was negligent.

I’m surprised at the ruling and I don’t agree with it. I’m allowed to. Having over ten years of lifeguard training allows me to have that opinion. I’ve had many toddlers come back on to pool side and try a touch the water whilst their parents think they are sat in a cubical or they are getting their towels out of a locker - it happens. Gates should be out at all entrances on to the pool.

Luckystar knows what I’m taking about and they have been through similar training. If you take on the responsibility of being the sole life guard on a pool you bette be up to it. I can only assume inexperience and/or tiredness got in the way.

I don’t know why sites are still able to use chairs. It’s really bad practise and all ours were removed at over five sites. I mainly worked at LA pools and they were very stringent with their training and H&S. we were trained for this situation over and over again. We are also trained gas leakages and electrical shock and the effects it has in the pool, heart attacks, epilepsy, broken necks, broken backs, how to spot a silent drowner and many many more. The role of a life guard is to be alert and ready for action. It really isn’t about sitting in a chair and casting your eye over the surface of the water.

Chairs encourage people to get tired. It’s hot on pool side and Zapps your energy. Sitting down is not a good idea. Also being high doesn’t automatically mean you have a good vantage point.

If the life guard wasn’t partly responsible for the death of this child what is the point of him being even on the pool?

The is on DV and the lifeguards toes. They were in charge of the pool. It doesn’t matter if it was a toddler, an adult man or woman anyone that goes near or in that pool is the responsibility.

I would expect DL training schedule and lifeguard attendance to training sessions have or will be scrutinised as each LG would have had to sign off on it. Maybe his training was really really poor and that’s why it was deemed not his fault and the council are now going after DL

Such a sad case. I have taken 5 yr old DS along to his 7 yr old DD's swimming lessons since he was 3. There is often confusion with lessons being moved to another pool, cancelled etc but not once does his little hand leave mine poolside. To be honest, I barely register where the lifeguards are as my small child is my responsibility. It is a tragic accident. The lifeguard is going to feel awful and is a kid himself.

DH has had some near misses with our kids involving busy roads, open windows on the first floor with 3 yr old DS sat at desk underneath, backing into parking spaces with tiny DD running towards back of car etc etc. They were all a result of hot weather, tiredness stress etc and we were very lucky the kids are fine. I shudder when I think about it.

The life guard was new in the job so his qualification and initial training weren't anything to do with DL. He had recently qualified as a lifeguard externally. I suppose h&s may have an issue with his company orientation, etc? But DL employed someone with a nationally recognised qualification.

The lifeguard's on site training and the fact that he was lone working as a young worker was everything to do with DLL. If he'd only recently qualified, then it would have been judicious (if more £££ for DLL) to have a more experienced lifeguard on duty at the same time, would it not?

If 'safety is their number one priority' as they claim, it's hard to understand why they'd have a recently qualified and inexperienced young worker solo working during a family session. If profit is, then it's very understandable.

The H&S breach may have been to do with inadequate training/supervision on site, being expected to sit in a chair, being a lone worker.

The lifeguard wasn't at all responsible for the tragedy - that culpability lies with the father sadly and DLL.

He'd done his supernumary time of shadowing another lifeguard which is normally a week at DL just to understand company procedures and where things are.

Maybe that's what the H&S breach was then. Only a week of 'shadowing' to take on sole responsibility for more than one pool as a young worker.

Is the shadowing 'just to understand company procedures and where things are?' That seems a bit remiss on the H&S front as well.

But if someone is qualified then they're qualified surely?

A qualification is what enables someone to apply and be appointed to a particular role.

It's the starting point for being able to do that role properly and safely, not the end point.

And that's in the context of broader organisational standards, practices, training and job organisation.

If lifeguards using chairs is bad practice, then young workers, lone working with very little experience under their belt must be off the scale for dangerous practice.

Cardonnenewbie describes her experience of lifeguarding at DLL pool as an 'accident waiting to happen' as there was only one lifeguard for three pools.

Another poster has described how the area around the lifeguard's chair is often crowded with families waiting for swimming lessons etc.

Arthrica describes how her child came close to drowning at the same DLL pool some years ago, due to poor systematic management of swimmers and non-swimmers.

It doesn't matter how well qualified someone is if they aren't enough people on duty, there aren't enough experienced people on duty and the systems created by management aren't adequate.

viva yes once your qualified your ‘qualified’. It takes about six weeks training or maybe slightly less depending on the lengths of days. Every thing is covered from pool work to theory work.

You will get certification that your a qualified lifeguard from a recognised governing body. Usually the RLSS. It’s not a flippant course, it’s intense.

It’s drummed in to you from day 1 that it’s your responsibility to supervise the entire pool area - in and out if the water.

I wonder if he hadn’t attended any training sessions before they let him on pool.

To clarify (since I swim in that very pool a couple of times a week) the lifeguard's chair is one of the tall ones that you have to climb up to. But I think in this scenario the lifeguard had come down from there to talk to the parent about a complaint re swimming lessons. In terms of the lifeguard being responsible for more than one pool, that's not the case. There is an outdoor pool at this club which is adults only for most of the time, therefore no lifeguard out there. When they open it up to children in the summer, there is another lifeguard on duty at the outdoor pool. It is impossible for one lifeguard to watch both pools.

viva yes once your qualified your ‘qualified’. It takes about six weeks training or maybe slightly less depending on the lengths of days. Every thing is covered from pool work to theory work.

I did mine in a week start to finish (7 hours a day). There were 7 of us and it was run via a local leisure centre. When I cited the 10:20 yesterday, I dug out my copy of "The Lifeguard" which is the bible for the course. I also got an extra qualification for using the automatic defibrillator.

But if someone is qualified then they're qualified surely
NPLQ is a weeks intense training with exams on the saturday morning.
They then have to train on a monthly basis , if they dont where my ds worked they cannot work until they have attended monthly training again. After 2 years they have to renew their certificate which involves more testing, although if they havent worked or trained in previous 6 months they have to retake the original course again.

My dd qualified in UK and US but never worked in UK . She worked at Camp America for the last 2 summers and had to redo her qualification when she went back for the second year

Lifeguarding is a huge responsibility on young shoulders. I’ve watched my child go under and get into difficulty right in front of a lifeguard, in the middle of a swimming lesson. I’ve been screaming and shouting at both the lifeguard and the instructor to try to get them to see/help, but fortunately another parent on poolside hopped in and got him. I was furious with the lifeguard but they just kept saying ‘I’m sorry, I didn’t see him’. It’s one of those jobs where most of the time intervention isn’t needed, and it’s probably a bit dull (but quite well paid). Most lifeguards will rarely see anyone in real danger, and complacency is rife.

At our local pool on a Sunday morning some of the lifeguards look decidedly worse for wear, and I remember many nights out as a teen where mates were out most of the night before a full day lifeguarding on the beach the next day.

Smaller private pools usually have the minimum requirement in terms of lifeguards, and that looks like what happened here. The parent distracted the lifeguard, and the worst happened