Toddler drowns at health club pool - apportioning blame ?

[thetideishigh]

This article really resonated with me on a couple of levels

metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-boy-3-drowned-david-lloyd-pool-says-death-prevented-12218854/.

When my kids were little I insisted that any swimming trips involved 2 adults as I'm not a strong swimmer myself and my dh was lax in his alertness to danger when in sole charge of just two kids ("daddy daycare" was responsible for ALL of our trips to A & E for the kids up to the age of 7).

One of my dc qualified and worked (only part time) as a lifeguard from the age of 16 + 1/2. They were a very serious/responsible child, with the maturity of someone much older according to their teachers and other independent adult observations.

Their younger sibling now also wants to train as a lifeguard so that they can earn a little extra money. They are fairly mature for their age so I was inclined to say yes to funding the training until I read the linked article.

It's set me wondering whether 16/17 year olds are too young for lifeguarding (although my dc is currently more responsible in their attitude to life stuff than a great many 18-21 year olds I know.

I also wonder how the dad came to lose sight of the 3 year old for long enough for him to wander off and fall in to the main pool. I never relaxed at the pool with the kids until they were better swimmers than me. I was a constant personal lifeguard to them on such trips but mostly because of my fears, not because of their behaviour.

What do people think ?

Reading that article, I don't think the Coroner is blaming the lifeguard.
Jury inquest suggests HSE are involved.
In the absence of other factors I would have expected HSE to pursue the employer, for systemic failures, not an individual employee.

Carcasonne
The Lifeguard was talking to an irate member
Should the lifeguard have walked away from the member ?

Carcasonnenewbie how do you know what the lifeguard did or didn't do?

There was a week long inquest, which didn't attribute any blame to the lifeguard. His role must have been examined in detail, yet he wasn't found to blame.

SpeedofaSloth yes that's exactly what's happening. Leeds council have said that they intend to prosecute DDL for breaches of H&S law.

Listening 100% you shouldn’t be having conversations on pool side. The life guard should have walked away and done a pool sweep. Even other life guards talking to each other is really frowned on. Your not supposed to have you back to the pool when walking round either.

This situation will be being discussed at every lifeguard training session.

I definitely don’t think it was the lifeguards fault.

Carcasonne
The life guard should have walked away and done a pool sweep
Oh get real.
In a private members club, for an employee to turn their back on a complaining member would be a sackable offence.

It may have been discussed, however if it wasn't achievable in practice then (IME) HSE would argue that there wasn't a safe system or work, and an individual employee - especially one under 18yo - couldn't reasonably be expected to make up for that with vigilance alone.

*of

thehorseandhisboy he clearly didn’t check the pool once in five minutes. That shouldn’t ever happen. He might as well have had a bag over his head.

he clearly didn’t check the pool once in five minutes
BECAUSE he was talking to an irate member ......

that member did not check the water once in the five minutes either ......

I've always accompanied my DD when swimming. Since she was just months old. And I mean watched her like a hawk. She is my responsibility. And it is my duty.
She is now 8, and can swim very well. I've been told she can attend the swimming pool from age 9 on her own. Actually, I would still prefer to be there.
My Nephew is 18. An amazing swimmer and tipped for the Olympics in a couple of years. He is also a lifeguard. As well as Assistant Manager at our local Council run pool where my DD has lessons.

But... we also swim and have membership at a private gym / pool. We went there tonight. There was 1 lifeguard on. At our council pool there are at least 4 staff on duty poolside. I'm ending our membership and just switching totally to the council pool. All I can surmise of this is that private expect to make more money so they cut corners to maximise profit.

I almost joined our local David Loyd gym at a slightly raised cost recently. Thinking the extra money would mean better care.
I don't think it does this at all. It is £17 for a one to one lesson with a council employee who has 30 yrs experience. It would have been double that at our private pool. Can't see the problem with one to one lessons risk wise. But shows how they are % driven.

Poor boy. So sad.

ListeningQuietly are you telling me that it’s worth a child dying just incase you get the sack? You don’t turn your back on a pool your watching. Ever. This lad clearly hadn’t been trained properly or was confident enough to deal with hazards. The irate customer is a hazard. He would have done Or should have played this scenario out multiple times during training.

I trained every month for ten years. I even thought rookie life guard. I know what I’m taking about. You don’t.

Carcasonne
The irate customer was the child's father ......

It is the parent or carer’s responsibility to look after their children at the pool. You don’t take your eyes off them for a second, especially around water. I feel for the father. He will never recover.

He was IN the water before his father got there. His DAD spotted him not the life guard. The minute the dad said ‘my sons missing’ the lifeguard should have been moving round the pool sweeping it.

Carcasonne
Please read the actual reports
www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/crime/leeds-council-plans-prosecute-david-lloyd-leisure-ltd-after-three-year-old-rocco-wright-drowned-leeds-swimming-pool-1756835

The person responsible for the child was the parent.
The child was not supposed to be in the water at all

The lifeguard is not the person to blame

Listening I have read the article. Just because he wasn’t meant to be there doesn’t mean the life guard didn’t have to spot him

That life guard will know it’s his fault. It’s his responsibility to make sure this never happens. Heat of been tired due to the heat, he may have been on pool too long, he may be inexperienced. But not to spot a still body at the bottom of a pool is really bad. Life guards are there for last back up and to prevent accidents.

Is this the actual original event?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-43850663

It's difficult - tinies slip off so quickly and on occasion tragedy happens either through accident or mischief.

Mine have twice nearly drowned. We arrived at a pool, turned to look for a space and the boys had gone (both toddlers). We frantically searched the three joined adventure pools and saw them at the top of a water slide which they came down as we watched in horror into deep water.

We were paralysed with shock and my older boy rescued them. It was awful: our response mystifies me.

Yes it should and could have been prevented. By the father. That's the truth, even though it sucks.

Most swimming pools have signs up stating extremely clearly that children under a certain age must be under the care of a 'responsible' adult - I would say that covers the adult taking responsibility for the child; not leaving it to the lifeguard
I agree. The lifeguard's job is to rescue people in difficulty in the water, not to supervise every toddler in the building. Thats the parent's job I'm afraid.

Parents need to be more responsible, he was his child! People love to force blame and responsibility onto others

Carcasonnenewbie I'm sure that the lifeguard is traumatised, but the accident clearly wasn't his fault.

One person cannot maintain 360 degree visibility at a swimming pool. There must have been blind spots, even more so if his attention was taken by a parent arguing with him, the very parent who was responsible for the child.

It's not the lifeguard's fault that the pool was open with only one lifeguard. The H&S breaches were DLL's short-comings, not those of an individual employee.

Given that the inquest went on for a week, I think it's fair to say that the lifeguard's actions during this time were scrutinised, the outcome being that no blame was laid on him.

The child's parent who was responsible for the child didn't spot his body at the bottom of the pool.

If the lifeguard hadn't 'played this scenario out multiple times during training' then it's clearly the responsibility of the training provider ie DLL isn't it?

This is so sad. A few thoughts... I don't understand how no one saw the 3 year old get/fall into the pool. Either it wasn't busy with people so the splash would be heard?! Or the child seen by life guard and or parent. If it was busy then surely someone would have seen/heard?
I look after my 3 year old niece regularly. They can dart quickly at that age. But near a road, water, platform or similar I'm hyper vigilant. I do see lots of people watching way less than I would. So I would speculate that it was poss a quick but tragic eye off the ball from the parent.

I don't think the lifeguard is responsible for a child not getting into the water or anyone not getting into difficulties. They are there to help /save somone when they do.