Toddler drowns at health club pool - apportioning blame ?

[thetideishigh]

This article really resonated with me on a couple of levels

metro.co.uk/2020/02/11/dad-boy-3-drowned-david-lloyd-pool-says-death-prevented-12218854/.

When my kids were little I insisted that any swimming trips involved 2 adults as I'm not a strong swimmer myself and my dh was lax in his alertness to danger when in sole charge of just two kids ("daddy daycare" was responsible for ALL of our trips to A & E for the kids up to the age of 7).

One of my dc qualified and worked (only part time) as a lifeguard from the age of 16 + 1/2. They were a very serious/responsible child, with the maturity of someone much older according to their teachers and other independent adult observations.

Their younger sibling now also wants to train as a lifeguard so that they can earn a little extra money. They are fairly mature for their age so I was inclined to say yes to funding the training until I read the linked article.

It's set me wondering whether 16/17 year olds are too young for lifeguarding (although my dc is currently more responsible in their attitude to life stuff than a great many 18-21 year olds I know.

I also wonder how the dad came to lose sight of the 3 year old for long enough for him to wander off and fall in to the main pool. I never relaxed at the pool with the kids until they were better swimmers than me. I was a constant personal lifeguard to them on such trips but mostly because of my fears, not because of their behaviour.

What do people think ?

I was shocked to read that a ratio of 1 lifeguard to 50 swimmers is within regulations.

www.hse.gov.uk/pUbns/priced/hsg179.pdf

Above is HSE guidance re safety in pools. There are (rightly) lots of factors for swimming pool providers/owners to take into consideration when eg deciding how many lifeguards should be in duty at once.

I was a teenage lifeguard, and we were trained to spot people in difficulty in the pool, or poolside - not to do checks to ensure all the children in the pool were being supervised by their parents, so I can understand that the lifeguard was not at fault in terms of the child wandering off from his parent and getting in the pool. What I can't understand is how the lifeguard missed that there was a child lying on the bottom of the pool and that the parent was the only person that noticed that. That is definitely a massive failure of the lifeguard/the lifeguarding system in place.

Given that neither the parents involved or Leeds Council - who know far more about the details than anyone else - have pointed the finger at the lifeguard, it's fair to say that the failure was systemic, not to do with an individual.

Might have been a blind spot. Might have been people standing between the child in the water and the life guard.

It is extraordinary that no-one else in the pool noticed either, but that's why it's important to have more than one lifeguard so that full vision of the pool is possible at all times.

Most leisure club pools do not have a deep end.
The pictures of the one at Leeds DLL do not show a deep end
the water is less than 5 feet deep all over

Our swimming pool insists on adults not being further than an arms length away and they police this quite well. Whilst annoying it is also reassuring

But that's very deep for a non-swimming toddler ListeningQuietly.

thehorse
That is the main pool.
Their toddler pool will be shallower
Swimming lessons need to be in water deep enough for actual swimming
The pools are multi use after all - its a leisure club

I also wonder how the dad came to lose sight of the 3 year old for long enough for him to wander off and fall in to the main pool.

The dad was having a “conversation” with the lifeguard about the fact the swimming lesson had been cancelled with no notice. He wasn’t very happy. So lifeguard totally distracted by this as was the dad.

I feel sorry for all concerned.

I think the age of the lifeguard is a red herring. Most life guards are young, it’s not exactly a long term career. You’re either qualified or you’re not. Dunno, maybe someone older would have been confident enough to tell the dad he wasn’t getting into an arguement and that he had to concentrate on the pool. I feel sorry for the lifeguard, he never went back to work. He’s been really affected by it.

Might have been a blind spot. Might have been people standing between the child in the water and the life guard.

In which case the lifeguard should have moved. You are supposed to sweep the pool every 10 seconds and be able to reach anywhere in your swept area within 20 seconds. The pool safety operating procedure should have the zones mapped out, and lifeguards should rotate to avoid fatigue.

When I trained, there was underwater CCTV available - quite a few pools have installed it.

How can it be an accident when a three year old should never be out of sight of a close adult ?

I feel for the lifeguard. Not their fault. The child was too young to be unattended.

Ds was lifeguard. Parent went mental at him because he told her DC 6 and 8 that they were not allowed in the pool without parents. Apparently he should have left his spot to go searching for her sitting fully clothed on the sud

If the parent was talking to the lifeguard,
how on EARTH was the lifeguard meant to be watching the rest of the pool?

I’m a member of DL - a different club but I imagine the set up is fairly similar. The problem at our club is there is a small seating area right next to the lifeguard’s chair and when you’re signing in / out for swimming lessons there are lots of parents / kids milling about in front of the lifeguard. So I can see how visibility would be reduced. It’s also incredibly distracting for the lifeguard as people are chatting / eating / drinking and kids are messing about / crying etc so the lifeguard is trying to police their behaviour which i don’t think is their responsibility.
Also it’s not unusual for there to be no other swimmers first thing in the morning - our lesson time is 8.30am and the pool is always empty. Adults avoid it like the plague as there are back-to-back kids lessons from then. So possibly no one was in the pool to notice the boy falling / getting in.
It’s a terribly sad story and not for me to comment on fault / blame but I do think DL should move the lifeguard’s chair at our club and any others with the same set up.

I'm a member of this club and I remember it happening. Very sad. But in my opinion the lifeguards are not there to allow the parents to take their eye off a child who can't swim.

RLSSQualified there was only one lifeguard on.

He didn't have anyone to rotate with and of course there will be blind spots with only one pair of eyes.

I missed that the dad was talking to the lifeguard about swimming lessons being cancelled. So effectively, there wasn't a lifeguard with their eyes on the pool.

bruffin I've seen that so often at one of our local pools.

There are two lifeguards near the pool entrance who approach every child or children who aren't with an adult and don't let them in if they're under 8 or if they can't prove that they can't swim a length if they're over.

I've seen so many parents get irate about this. Mind-boggling.

I feel sorry for the dad but he is definitely to blame here.

BUT
This happened at a DLL club
it is NOT a public swimming pool
so many of the members are very entitled at the staff and ignore their requests

Adults sit in the steam room while their kids are swimming, or the sauna or the hot tub
There are lane swimmers and aqua classes all going on
and for many hours a day there are no lifeguards at all (when its designated adults only )
In winter the outside pools never have lifeguards

The situation is just not comparable with a public pool

I agree that DLL is a different set up to public pools, but why is it not comparable?

Other than public pools would never have just one lifeguard on duty, let alone none at all.

Its like a hotel pool
parents accept that children are under their supervision and they take them in at their own risk

I can't swim, I would never be left in charge of a child in the pool. The rule on holiday was always no swimming while I was in charge and I absolutely insisted on this.

Lifeguards are not childminders but they are taught to constantly scan the pool and should be walking around it. They should be able to see in every corner of the pool. They should do monthly training where items are sunk to the bottom of the pool and they have to spot them. They will have training on how to spot a sinking body and a silent drowner. This training should happen every month.

I was a life guard for many years and taught swimming. It’s so easy for a child to slip out of the changing rooms and get in to the pool. It happens a lot.

It’s a life guards responsibility to see every corner of that pool all the time and if they can’t then they move.

I worked at a DL site once and there was one life guard that was supposed to man THREE pools. One was outside. Accident waiting to happen.

This was a tragic accident but yes I do think the life guard was partly to blame. And DL

But public pools also specify that parents are responsible for supervising their own children, while having requirements like child/adult ratios, no non swimmers past this point etc etc to minimise risk.

There was a lifeguard on duty and DLL said in their statement that 'safety is our number one priority', so they clearly accept some duty of care. A breach of H&S seems to be the basis of prosecution by Leeds Council.

Carcasonnenewbie there was only one lifeguard on duty. Unless he had x-ray, 360 degrees vision, he couldn't possible see the whole pool.

You're right, this set up was an accident waiting to happen, but I don't see how the lifeguard can be held to blame for only being one person.

Five minutes that baby was at the bottom of the pool. The life guard had obviously not checked once.