Should formula milk advertising be completely illegal

[Reallytired]

news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6933188.stm

I think so. Mums who need to use formula, are better off getting advice from health professionals rather than advertising.

I haven't had time to read the whole thread - just scanned - but IMO yes, all formula advertising should be banned, including follow-on.

Non-judgemental information should be given, but not advertising. I can't see how it can ever be a good thing, it doesn't tell you anything about the merits of the various brands anyway, just who's got the biggest budget. And it's in defiance of the spirit of the original agreements on f milk advertising anyway.

bonitaMia, I explain why I'm passionate about bf support on this thread

Please don't use the word militant. It's offensive.

Bonita, in answer to your q, I don't care what decision other mothers make as long as it's an informed one. I do care if people are being influenced to make a decision for the convenience and profit of industry, rather than for their own health.

If, once they've got the facts, women decide to FF that's absolutely fine by me. But I don't think that formula companies rights over-ride those of women and their children.

And a partial yes to your question - I would feel happy if all the mums who want to breastfeed had good experiences and breastfed for as long as they wanted to. Is that wrong somehow?

Sorry, that's a bit of a long thread:

By hunkermunker on Wed 08-Aug-07 02:04:38
I'm passionate about helping other women to breastfeed for many reasons.

First of all, I strongly believe that, all other things being equal, it's best for babies and for their mothers to have and give breastmilk.

But I also strongly believe that there's not enough information out there for women to make an informed choice without doing their own research. Healthcare professionals are busy, often have limited knowledge themselves and without knowing where to look, or what to expect, it's hard to know what you should be researching.

I believe that the UK society isn't geared up for breastfeeding, certainly not past the first few weeks, and I think that it's criminal that 90% of women who stop breastfeeding in the first six weeks of their baby's life do so against their wishes. The fact that only 1 in 4 babies is having any breastmilk at all at six months and more than 90% of babies have formula at one stage or another also demonstrates how ingrained giving formula is.

Formula manufacturers spend almost £20 per newborn baby marketing their product. The Government spends about 80p per baby marketing breastfeeding. So I'm not sure that anyone can complain that breastfeeding is "pushed" on them. And this brings me to what often irritates me about this whole debate - yes, I breastfeed, yes, I support other women to breastfeed where I can, but I don't do it for any reason other than that I feel that women often get a raw deal with breastfeeding support in this country and if I can help stop that, in some small way, then I will feel quite happy about that, because breastfeeding, when it's going well, is a really nice thing to do.

But the implication is so often that for some reason I and other supporters of breastfeeding are trying to make women who feed formula feel bad, or wrong in some way.

I have nothing against formula or women who feed their babies with formula. I do wish that the breastfeeding campaign had the spending power of the formula companies, definitely.

I object to formula being advertised for many reasons, not least because the adverts don't actually tell you anything useful and I don't think that's helpful to a woman trying to choose the best nutrition for her baby.

What I would like to see is a total ban on formula advertising (including in professional journals - in fact, especially in professional journals), follow-on and growing up milk banned (they are unnecessary products) and, in my ideal world, all midwives, health visitors, paediatricians, GPs and any other healthcare professional who has contact with babies to have full training on all things breastfeeding.

I would also like to see more information for mothers about the normal course of breastfeeding and give them the confidence to diagnose their own breastfeeding "hiccups" without telling them they ought to top up with formula at the slightest sign of a dodgy weigh-in one week, or stop breastfeeding if they need to take antibiotics of antidepressants, as well as the knowledge of when a problem needs extra help from a professional (such as with a severe case of mastitis or thrush).

Also, if workplaces provided better facilities for women to express and store their expressed milk and there was more information about how to manage working and breastfeeding, more women would have the confidence to start breastfeeding - so often I hear women say there's not much point doing it, since they'll have to give formula when they go back to work - I do realise it's not always possible to keep breastfeeding once you return to work, given the nature of some employment, but more women than currently do would be capable of it, given the right support and knowledge.

What I really object to is this spurious argument that somehow by allowing formula advertising to continue, you're helping women have a choice, when, in fact, all you're doing is making very sure the formula manufacturers can use their rather large budget and their very sneaky tactics to undermine women at their most vulnerable time.

But mostly, what I really want, is for women to be able to make decisions they're comfortable with, based on up-to-date information. I do get very sad reading the wistful "I wish I'd known then what I know now" posts on here. I don't want women to regret anything about the early days with their babies - and that 90% figure bothers me greatly, because that's a lot of regret.

really sorry, didn't realise about "militant" I am not a native speaker and don't post often. Going to read your last post now...

S'OK

Can we be absolutely certain that the 90% gave up against their wishes or that they gave that answer in response to the question as it was the politically correct answere to be giving and conferred less guilt/blame on to them ?

Is "giving up against their wishes" the same as "wishing they hadn't given up" ?

Many breastfeeding women do get a raw deal in terms of support and many formula milk users get little or no support too, having to figure it out for themselves based on tiny print instructions on the side of a pack of formula milk whilst in a sleep deprived state.

Hunker's right, the UK society as a whole is not sufficiently geared up to support breastfeeding (fgs have we even passed the law yet to make it illegal to harrass a mum breastfeeding in public ?) and infuriatingly enough healthcare professional are spouting off about it and pressuring women into feeling guilty if they don't try it whilst at the same time having insufficient NHS resources to adequately support it. In addition, formula milk feeding is being vilified by the government (NHS) and access to information thereon restricted in order to discourage it.

FUWW, I think that was controlled for

And this, from lower down that page:

Mothers would like to breastfeed for longer
The reasons mothers give for stopping suggest that very few mothers breastfed as long as they planned to. When asked specifically about this nine in ten mothers (90%) who stopped breastfeeding within six weeks of birth said they would have liked to have breastfed for longer. This is the same as in 1995. The most common reasons given by these mothers for stopping were:
the baby rejecting the breast. painful breasts or nipples. insufficient milk. [When their babies were between 6 weeks and 4 months old, 69% of women stopping would have liked to feed for longer, 48% of women who stopped at 4-6 months and 37% of women who stopped between 6 months and 9 months.]

I'm not sure how you could control for a few people giving the politically correct answer rather than stating their true feelings.

I could have told people all sorts of "acceptable" reasons why I wasn't breastfeeding (ignoring the fact that I didn't even start) but I didn't want to b/f for many reasons and was not afraid to share this fact if asked.

FUWW, should we ignore the findings of surveys like this because there's a possibility that not everyone told the whole truth?

My belief that the 90% figure is pretty accurate is borne out by MN's archive and RL experience, btw.

I agree with you in almost everything. UK is not a BF friendly country, for many reasons (but FF ads is not one of them). And I disagree when you say BF is not being pushed. From my experience, it is being pushed and then not followed by the right support, specially to struggling mums (we agree on this one)

I chose to BF precisely because I read that Breast is Best. So, i can tell you the message gets across, at least in some groups in society. But with my DD I dried up and after introducing a bottle at 7 weeks, I stopped BF totally at 11 weeks. I did/tried everything, my husband supported me all along, bless him. Visited my local community support group on Tuesdays, talked to the nurses and midwives, read books, BF in the Starbucks with my mum-friends, etc. I still dried up and got depressed. One evening, with DD howling in the background and me already thinking about leaving the country and joining a travelling circus, I rang my mum, who instead of giving me a speech, said: "Look, you have tried. Stop fuffing about and give that baby a good bottle of milk NOW. I can hear her. She sounds hungry, darling". DD had been diagnosed with colic, because she cried endlessly in the evenings (just when my milk was at the lowest). It was hunger. The first bottle I introduced that evening put an end to the "colic". I look back now and think how absolutely irrational and out of proportion my feelings about BF were then.

I have thought about the possible reasons why people don't perservere or even try BF, and I think it is because of personal circumstances, apart from the fact that for some women and babies seem to be easier, for whatever reason (phsysiological, etc).

I think too much emphasis is put on trying to erase FF from the map and not enough on supporting mums who, like me, wanted to BF in the first place. Forget a bit about the ones who won't BF, put more effort in the ones who want to succeed, get that established first, and the FF ones will be more likely to change their minds or at least have a go at it.

(second part)

All mums need:

• to be persuaded not bullied into BF. And to be persuaded for the right reasons. Sometimes I think a lot of people try to BF because they are determined to do the "best" at all costs. And when their body fails them (my case), they persevere through pain and depression, not realising that they are not achieving the "best", but the "worst". Knowing when to give up is important. That should be part of the "BF info" package.

• extended family / close friends support (someone to feed the mum, take over when she needs a nap between BF sessions, etc): the problem when it comes to BF is that people don't leave close to their extended family, I mean walking/bus distance, not a car-ride away. I think it is unrealistic to expect BF to get re-established in the UK and western societies in general, given the isolated way many mums live nowadays (especially single mums, with other children). Someone please explain to me, how they are going to "persevere" with 10-12 Bf sessions to produce milk, when they have to attend to older children!!! That's why I don't blame women who don't even try.

• to feel relaxed about not being able / not wanting to BF: It doesn't make you a better or worse mum. That's the message to get across, I think.

Besides, let's not get too hang up about BF or FF. What about afterwards? Some people BF but then, once free from the BF duties, they don't hesitate to use baby food jars, and then move on to other ready-made more o less junk food and then to pizzas 7 times a week when toddlerhood strikes. Others choose to FF but then cook at home every single bite their babies/families have. Hmm, I know which mum i would prefer out of those two types!

Well said BonitaMia.

I find it hard to understand why a mother would not at least attempt breastfeeding unless there are strong medical grounds.

Surely the collostrum that is produced in the early days is a baby's birthright. It really makes a difference to the child's health.

There are several countries like Norway which have no formula advertising. There is no evidence that Norwiegn mothers are more unhappy that British mothers.

Bring up babies is a responsibilty of a community. We should care about all our children and make sure they get the best start in life.

Hi can I hijak as I need advice about expressing when I return to work?

mumsnet.com/Talk?rn=35322&topicid=1364&threadid=369247&redir=35322

Thanx

Hear Hear for BonitaMia

Reallytired,

I find it hard to understand why anyone would smoke around their children but many do.

I find it hard to understand how anyone can starve themselves to remain a size 8/10 when they're naturally a 12/14.

I find it hard to understand why a mum would think it's O.K. to let her young daughter wear makeup and "prosti-tot" type clothing or have pierced ears.

I can't get my head round the idea that some parents don't believe in firmly saying NO to their child on a regular basis.

We're all different and the only way we can get along is by being accepting of different practices whilst trying to legislate to prevent the harmful ones.

Some people make it sound like these companies are pushing tobacco onto infants. That is not the case. Sure they are business trying to make money, but that doesn't mean they should be denied the same rights to advertise as other companies.

I think mothers who chose to nurse are doing thier babies a wonderful service. And I also think that women are generally intelligent enough to decide which type of formula their babies need. Women who don't know are very unlikely to count on an advertisement.

I agree with the person who said the problem is there is not enough advertisement encouraging breastfeeding. I think the key to getting women to nurse is educating them to the benefits.

Reallytired - I think another part of the problem is that people can't really see what the benefit of breast milk is over formula milk and how it makes a difference to their child's health.
I was ff over 40 years ago. I don't seem to have been badly affected by it. Presumably formula milk wasn't as good as it is today, either.
I bf my babies because I just felt that human milk must be best for human babies. However, I can't say that I could distinguish bf people from ff people so while I feel that bf must be better, I've not really seen evidence of that.
I hope that by bf-ing my babies I've perhaps averted later health problems for them and myself. But that does leave me concerned for what ill-effects I might suffer as a result of being ff. Fortunately, so far, nothing has shown up.

I think we have to look to countries who are doing better than us at getting mums to breastfeed sucessfully. What do they do different from us? Norway is a good country to look at because it is a developed country where families face similar problems to British families.

What is the biggest difference between breastmilk and formula. Well breastmilk (and unpasturised cow's milk) is alive. Breastmilk is white because it contains millions of living white blood cells. These living white blood cells protect the baby from gut infections.

www.007b.com/wonders_breastmilk.php

The problem with cow's milk is that it contains cow white blood cells. This is not generally a problem for humans because milk is pasturised and the cow white blood cells are killed. Any living cow white cells might attack the baby because it is not a cow.

This also explains why cow's milk is such a problem as an allergen.

I think this is absolutely disgusting! By stopping advertisments like this because 'breast is best' is just nuts. What are they trying to achieve by doing this, make all the mum's who don't bf feel even worse? The ammount of crap I've been made to feel from hv etc because I stopped bf my dd at 6 weeks is unreal. I think that stopping the advertisements for formula is sending out th wrong signal.

Why shouldn't they advertise it? There is still a large market for it. I'm sick and tired of being pummelled by breastfeeding nazis for formula feeding my daughter. I think it's my right to be able to watch an advertisement for formula milk that I feed to my daughter.

I'm sorry but breast is not best for all women, and this sort of thing just angers me even further. By stopping these adverts and replacing them with bf adverts is unfair and harsh. There is no medal for bf your baby, you are not a saint if you put up with excruciating pain whilst breastfeeding your baby.

I am very pro breastfeeding, but I'm also pro formula feeding, depending on what works best of mother and baby. If they wanted to match the adverts for formula with breastfeeding that's great. But by making these adverts illegal, for whatever reason, seems totally unnacceptable to me. I don't know, maybe I'm not seeing it from the correct angle.

"I'm sorry but breast is not best for all women, and this sort of thing just angers me even further. By stopping these adverts and replacing them with bf adverts is unfair and harsh. There is no medal for bf your baby, you are not a saint if you put up with excruciating pain whilst breastfeeding your baby. "

If you feel guilty bottlefeeding then that is your problem. Breastfeeding is nothing to do with being saintly. Its about giving your child the best chance in life. To me that is more important than any medal.

No mother should have to put up with excruciating pain. Clearly you did not get the help you needed.

Before you ask, I had hideous time establishing breastfeeding. However I good hospital support that made the differenec. It took a lot of blood, guts and determination to get a five pound newborn baby to breastfeed. Especially as my son had to be fed by a syringe as he was weak.

Out of curiousity. Do you think we should worry about making pregnant woman who drink a small amount of alochol feel guilty? Do you think women who get drunk during pregnancy deserve children?

I think its interesting that some posters consider that both the mum's and the baby's physical and emotional needs are important (happy mum/happy baby thing)and some only consider the baby's needs of any imprtance inferring that if they are not met then the mum is being thoughtless/selfish.

I do think we shouldn't criticise another parent's choices until we've walked a mile in their shoes.