Anyone been following the Jordan Burling death case *warning, distressing*

[SealSong]

Has anyone been following this baffling and tragic case?
Mother and Grandmother have been convicted of manslaughter today.
Jordan aged 18 died at home, emaciated and with bed sores, having had no medical treatment.

Details of the court case in here - warning contains very distressing details.

I am struggling to understand how this could have happened. How the mother and grandmother could have failed to get medical attention, and also how Jordan just gave up and wasted away, when there were no apparent special needs, mental illness or specific health problems (as far as is known). Although surely he must have had some kind of undiagnosed mental illness or something.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a thread on Mumsnet about this case, it has been in national news, but not very high priority I suppose.

One of the strangest and saddest cases I have ever heard of.

You’re getting mixed up with attachment disorder.

I think that there have been ASD diagnosis in children and adults who have suffered severe abuse and neglect as young children/babies and this has been accredited to the environments they have been raised in.

ASD is not as simple as ‘born with it’ it is a way of grouping together a complex set of symptoms in (usually) young people.

‘I think that’
Should read ‘I know that’

No that’s attachment disorder which has similar symptoms! You are so wrong on this one, trust me.

I really can’t tell if you’re just on a wind up now.

I’m not sure how much you’ve studied psychology Cerid but I have, at degree level and this was one of the first things we learned about.

You’ll be telling me that vaccinations cause it next.

I know a hell of a lot more about autism than you do.

You don’t even know what attachment disorder is?

Cantankerous
I am a psychologist, worked 20 years as one, and 15 years on an autism diagnostic team. Autism is NOT caused by neglect. Attachment disorder which has similar symptoms is. People with attachment disorder may be misdiagnosed as autistic. Autism is a neurodivergent brain.
You really are very wrong indeed and need to update your studies. Autism in the absence of learning difficulties is now often considered a brain difference not a "defect".

None of which is very relevant to the tragic case of this young man.

Precisely oldbirdy

Of course I know what AD is!

I had no idea autism existed as anything but a LD. I only studied 2 years ago I’m amazed that anything so structural has changed since then and have to say that lots of people must be diagnosed with ASD who don’t have it if this is the new ‘rule’

In fact I’m AMAZED that they haven’t made a new classification in the light of this rather than change an old one; that seems to be grounds for huge misunderstanding and confusion for patients

And people wonder why we end up as socially screwed as we do. I have to say, autism or not, this family obviously became isolated and struggling due to their inability to cope in the world and due to lack of support or even passing interest from the authorities.

Autism never was a LD

Ahola - serious question - what about his appearance makes you think ASD? Is there a "look"?

What are you talking about?
Attachment disorder has been well known for all the 15 years I have been diagnosing autism. People with autism may or may not have general learning difficulties, it has always been thus. Many autistic people are very able academically. You've been talking to one on this thread. Surely it was obvious that she doesn't have learning difficulties ( as in, falling one standard deviation or more below the average intellect?)

There is research that indicates that autistic people do share certain facial features.

Both my dcs are autistic - one aspergers, the other pda - the pda dc is studying at oxford.

I was taught ASD was a behavioural disorder rather than a LD apologise.

I still don’t understand how it can be rebranded as something only inherent after all this time of diagnosing people in which ASD has been shown to occur alongside neglect and trauma

That is just so not true Camel

The French psychiatrists used to peddle the Refrigerator Mother cause of autism back in the 60s!!! They still have problems in France because of this.

Autism research is advancing by the month, people need to keep up before expressing offensive opinions and damaging false info.

This is as bad as the vaccination untruths.

We have to live with this you know.

Anyway, this thread isn’t even about autism because nobody knows if there is autism present in this unfortunate family. I do hope that they are appropriately assessed in jail though.

They fucked up massively, but I sense that it wasn’t done with malice. Even the baby in the bag is so sad and bizarre that it’s obvious something is catastrophically wrong with their thinking and reasoning.

Cantankerous wherever did you study?
The refrigerator mother stuff went out in the 1970s, unless you are in France where they still tend towards a (discredited elsewhere in the world) psychotherapeutic approach.
It is very clear that autism is a form of neurodivergent brain. How dare someone teach people that it is a behavioural disorder? It is a communication based difficulty, not behaviour based. The core features are that a person experiences difficulty with social communication and interaction and with flexible thinking. They usually have sensory processing differences. "Behaviours" are a result, generally, of misunderstanding, being misunderstood, or of rigid thinking patterns or sensory overwhelm or sensory seeking. Behaviours are a result of the autism not a core diagnostic feature.

I studied autism in a college delivering a Social Work degree as part of the University of Bath.

*a result of the interaction of a divergent brain in a neurotypically- biassed world, really. Which is what Ceri was saying.