Anyone been following the Jordan Burling death case *warning, distressing*

[SealSong]

Has anyone been following this baffling and tragic case?
Mother and Grandmother have been convicted of manslaughter today.
Jordan aged 18 died at home, emaciated and with bed sores, having had no medical treatment.

Details of the court case in here - warning contains very distressing details.

I am struggling to understand how this could have happened. How the mother and grandmother could have failed to get medical attention, and also how Jordan just gave up and wasted away, when there were no apparent special needs, mental illness or specific health problems (as far as is known). Although surely he must have had some kind of undiagnosed mental illness or something.

I'm surprised that there hasn't been a thread on Mumsnet about this case, it has been in national news, but not very high priority I suppose.

One of the strangest and saddest cases I have ever heard of.

I’m afraid IME safeguarding procedures in schools,NHS and social services are often a paper exercise. Transitory staff, lack of experience, difficulty in proving suspicions, lack of access, non joined up work by different agencies means cases like this end up in tragedy.

Asd is not a disorder. It’s a different type of brain wiring

Yes. The 'brain wiring' is disordered that's why it's called autistic spectrum disorder.

The brain wiring isn’t disordered, it’s differently arranged which results in different cognitive processes.

I’m autistic myself, I know how it works.

To autistics, it’s the neurotypical people who appear ‘disordered’.

Cerid

If you have a disorder that means you other the majority of the population away from yourself, then that is most certainly a disorder.

This thinking scares me. Certain ways of thinking are, of course, disordered. I have bipolar, at times, to me, people are passive and mundane. At other times they are frighteningly quick and organised.

Because I have a condition, not because there is anything wrong with them.

I don’t understand what it is you’re saying.

Different is not disordered. Many nt people bully and ostracise autistic people which is why we avoid them. It’s a form of self protection.

actually yes, if ‘different’ means you struggle to live in society then it DOES mean disordered. Thats literally what it means.

The nts have arranged society to meet their needs which excludes many people.

You are very insulting and unpleasant.

I am a teacher and have for many years been concerned about the rise in HE. Personally I don't think a parent should have the right to deny a child an education. I don't much care how many museums etc a home schooling parent visits (decent parents do that anyway in the 13 weeks of school holidays)- the education given at home (if it can be called that) is not the same. The safeguarding procedures that are second nature to school staff these days just seem to get thrown out of the window because a parent decides that they will keep their child at home where they may or may not learn to read, they may or may not sit exams and they may or may not be cared for. Frankly, I'm outraged that parents, who have often had the benefits of a decent education themselves, seek to deny their child of the same. It's truly outrageous and there is a part of me that feels that it's only permissible because it saves the government a few quid.

I can well imagine how this happened.

You simply stop seeing things as abnormal.

Cerid

There is no one ‘out to get’ you (or me). No one is ‘arranging society’ With the purpose of disregarding you.

continual

It looks like that’s exactly what happened from the court transcripts.

But what ‘blame’ can be apportioned there?

I’m not sure.

I am surprised the sister has been held in any way responsible and I’m uncomfortable with that.

The sister has had her child removed and adopted. Would be interesting to know the proceedings behind that. Was she competent until this case? Is it because she proved to be living at the house?

Ahola

An ehcp might mean you are entitled to services until you are 25 but doesn't mean you get them.

My child is receiving no education but has an ehcp.

This is the reality for many, many children.

What a horrible case. I wonder if the women had issues with males? Given what happened to Jordan and that the dead baby was also Male.

Also does anyone know what input if any the father had? Was he kept away or had he raised concerns?

And I completely agree with the poster above on HE. It should be properly regulated with a requirement to follow the curriculum (perhaps modified for SEN) or banned.

Yes, I was reprimanded for reporting - they had a member of staff whose 'job' (along with teaching) it was to watch out for families like theirs. This family only came onto my radar because I worked at the school. I didn't live in that area and my own children didn't attend it. It was pretty much a local school for local families. Pretty much all the staff knew that particular family, they'd been a 'concern' for years, but NOTHING ever improved for those poor children. The attitude of the staff and parents - to me anyway - was it's not our problem they choose to live like that. Social Services know all about them etc. For crying out loud folks, you would let a dog suffer under such circumstances, why allow children to?
It was after the Victoria Climbie case. A good few years after.
No 'lessons' had been learnt at all. Now, I understand the SS were over worked and probably at least the family had food and were attending school, but just how bad did the lives of those children have to get before they became a priority?
And why was the attitude of the adults at the school so awful? These aren't evil/ unfeeling adults normally, but when it came to that family they certainly were. One adult bought herself a new coat but took it back when she saw the family's daughter had the same one. She - the adult - didn't want folk to think she was related to or like 'that' family.
Messed up priorities.

I don’t think HE’rs should have to follow the curriculum, I mean it’s mostly nonsense.

This case is very very sad. I don't think the mother and grandmother are monsters.

The thing that strikes me in the judges transcript is that he described the mother and grandmothers reasoning for not calling a Dr and then goes on to say how none of the reasons explain it, but there must have been a reason. They cared for him and called an ambulance when he was on the brink of death so I don't think they wanted him to die. I think they genuinely seemed to think they were doing the right thing?

And why did he stop eating? Nowhere suggests it was them who stopped feeding him, they are being prosecuted for failing to seek medical help not not feeding him. This wasn't torture it was negligence, I don't think they purposefully hurt him, they just didn't seem to know or be aware of how to help him. The GM cared for her son fine, it's very strange.

Children who are HE should have regular checks, and it should be monitored. DC who go to school are essentially monitored daily, children are all vulnerable human beings and of course we should monitor to make sure their care is up to scratch. Nothing major or to be worried about for any normal parent, just a home visit to check all is in order, the children are being educated etc. DC are human beings in their own right, they are not the property of parents and have the right to education and care separate to that of their parents wishes so monitoring would be to ensure that the parents of HE children were giving their DC an education and ensure they were well cared for.

It is cases like this that I wish people would read about when they are slagging schools off for challenging poor attendance or carrying out home visits. I have been slated on Mumsnet before for suggesting that not all parents are good parents and professionals need to be able to ask questions when something seems wrong.

There is a reason why we want children to be visible and known well by people outside their own families.

@ceridwenscottage
Fwiw you are absolutely right. But what would autistic people know about their own neurology 🙄

I know Jordan Burling didn’t attend a special school but having worked in a few I found they do not seem to follow the same safeguarding procedures as mainstream schools do and often do not question why some of their pupils’ attendance are very low accepting the parent’s reason they are ill. Some of the pupils on my caseload hadnt attended these special schools for up to 2 years but remain on there rollcall. IMO special schools along with HE are another scandal waiting to happen

Some people home-educate well. In some cases, it's the best thing for the child. (I'm particularly thinking of children who have been bullied at school.) But I broadly agree with you. Many home-edders insist that "Anyone can home educate their kids" and this is just nonsense. I personally have a degree and am well read in certain areas and I know for a fact that I would just not be able to provide the full curriculum to a child. . .In the Burling case, it was clear in court and from various reports that both Dawn Cranston (the mother) and the grandmother were of low intelligence and with quite pronounced learning disabilities. Yet Dawn C was able, perfectly legally, to write a letter to the education authority in Leeds simply saying "From now on, my son will be home-educated. By me." No questions, no follow-up, nothing. And this was a child who had already been flagged up in primary school as being badly neglected! The law needs to be tightened up.

How are children going to grow up and be able to function in the modern world if they don't follow the curriculum? Which bits of it are, in your view, nonsense? There are people in Britain who home-educate because they don't want their children/teenagers learning any facts about sex, pregnancy and family planning. Do you think THAT is allright? Some parents only want their children to study religious texts: is THAT alright?

You seem to be saying: let's leave it all to the discretion of individual parents. Surely one of the things that this case highlights is that it's just not safe to do that.