Interesting and disturbing article about foetal alcohol syndrome.

[Callisto]

I found this article in the Sunday Torygraph yesterday, thought you'd all be interested: here.

Yes, but what I?m saying is that having the odd drink (not getting drunk) regularly when pregnant will not aversely affect your baby anyway. Get some peace of mind by not worrying about things that don?t need worrying about! And there are worse things you could do than have an occasional joint. If a doctor prescribed this would it be allowed then? Some people with MS use it medicinally ? do you think they all stop when they are pregnant? Save you?re ire and judgement for alcoholics and drug addicts. And no I wouldn?t recommend that you take coke ? your powers of conflation astound me ? but I do know that medical professionals regularly tell women who became pregnant when experimenting with drugs, and who continued to until they realised they were pregnant, sometimes weeks into the pregnancy, not to worry.

Why is having a medicinal glass of wine being equated with habitual drug use or alcoholism on this thread? It?s just ridiculous. Women are not stupid and know what is good for them and their unborn children. Simply because a minority are stupid shouldn?t dictate no one else can be responsible for their own behaviour and have to be told what to do like some docile sheep.

I agree with your view, monkeytrousers. As I said way down the thread, I've done a lot of work on FAS at work and have never come across a proven case in which a woman who drinks within the weekly limit of 14 units has had an FAS baby.

An odd glass of wine has nothing to do with serious drug abuse or alcoholism. Just as it doesn't when not pregnant.

medicinal glass of wine? did your gp prescribe it?

Im too tired to read the thread, i think that is not unreasonable to give up drink when you know you are pregnant. Its only a few months, ok ok, so you cant drink whilst bf either, i forgot about that and so did my friends who bought me alcohol when i had dd. When i had dd1 16 yrs ago, i did not find out i was pregnant until i was already five months gone and had drunk like a fish, was very worried about it but dd apparently fine, well shes 16 and fit and healthy. I must have consumed alcohol with dd2 (20m) at the early stages but knew i was pg at 8 weeks so gave it up and wouldnt even sniff it, well maybe not so extreme. It was no hardship at all to me, i just think even if the risk is tiny why take it. But what really makes me mad, and i think i might start a new thread in the morning, is women who think its ok to smoke when they are preg and around their young children, my dd2 is 20m and i still insist that no body smokes anywhere near her and i dont care who i offend. I know people who smoke around their children and smoke during pregnancy and i dont let my usual politeness hide my disgust. When i was preg with dd2 my husband had to stear me away from a woman who was smoking during labour FFS!!!! i just cant keep my mouth shut about it, and quite frankly why should i, its tantamount to child abuse. Then you have the mindless fuckwits who smoke in thier cars, windows shut, babies and children in tow. Why would any intelligent woman in this day and age think that this is an acceptable thing to do? my father died of smoking related illnesses and when he had his first heart attack he gave up a lifetime habit of smoking over night, so dont be giving me the addiction bullshit either, i know its hard but dont you think your children are worth the effort, and yourselves, Roll on july thats what i say when i dont have to be polluted by other peoples smoking habits.

weekly limit of 14 units?
the problem tho is that for some people 'the odd glass of wine'is going to be a hell of a lot more booze than for some others. The info just has to be clearer and more prolific. I'm not vilifying anyone, i'm just not assuming that all women are middle class Frenchy types who are just having a glass of wine with their meal. For some people plentiful alcohol [i'm thinking younger girls especially] is a way of life, and they may not even know how much/little they should drink when pregnant.

Ruty, no one is forcing anyone to drink more wine than they would normally ? within normal limits. If 14 units is too much for you when your not pregnant, why on earth would you decide to drink that much when pregnant. The lack of logic on this thread is bewildering. What the evidence tells us is that if you do enjoy a glass or two of wine a day and you continue to have this during pregnancy that this will not cause FAS in your baby.

Medicinal ? yes; are we all forgetting that drinking within limits is of benefit to you??

MT you are being a bit patronising. and the points i have made have been entirely logical. If you read the article one woman was led to believe by her GP that 4 units a week was acceptable. And now we have from imaginary friend the threshold of 14 units. So it is immediately apparent that there is some confusion amongst most women about what is the acceptable limit. As i have said repeatedly i think more info needs to be communicated and it needs to be less variable.

But anything below the standard 14 per week is not considered harmful either, is all I'm saying. Getting drunk is not common sense for anyone and anyone who needs to be told that..well, it's probably more cultural. I think people of my mothers generation both smoked and got drunk when pregnant - just as most people got drunk and then drove their cars home; it seems complete madness now but they obviously didn't see anything wrong with it. One schoolteacher from a private primary regaled the tale of when she was 6 months pregnant and her mother holding her cigarette for her one new year, as she was too drunk to hold it herself. Go figure.

I don't care if I'm being patronising; there is no need to give anyone a hard time if they admit to drinking moderately in pregnancy. Rather patronising than judgemental. Maybe we are at cross-purposes. I'm saying the guidelines are there for you to follow to the letter if you want, but no one has the right to guilt trip perfectly responsible women who drink the odd glass when pregnant

i rather resent being told i am judging or vilifying anyone when i have not done so MT.

There is NO solid proof that for every person and every baby there is no harm from ANY amount of alcohol.

Show me the absolute proof and I'll shut about it.

...and there is NO solid proof that for every person and every baby there IS harm from drinking within gov guidelines!

Show me the absolute proof there is, and I'll admit that YOUR right!

This thread is what absurdity looks like.

when I was PG in 2003, government advice on FSA website was that 1 unit per DAY was OK. I find it alarming that people are so keen to restrict PG women and vilify them for having a glass of wine per week. It's the thin end of an unpleasant wedge - what next, lock up women for eating McDonalds and jars of peanut butter in pregnancy.

Can I clarify what I said earlier? That no case of proven FAS is known about in a woman who provenly drinks less than 14 units of alcohol a week which is the recommended top allowance for women whether pregnant or not.

However I'm not by any means saying that you should drink anything like 14 units a week when pregnant for a whole host of reasons. Not least of which is that people don't measure their units correctly, often a unit is doubled, especially due to sizes of wine glass, so you could easily go over a reasonable limit.

I was just giving a figure from the research I've come across at work in a large medical history / research establishment.

Parp. [to MT]

glitterkitty, if you can live with the risks, go ahead, fill your glass...

But i would just prefer to not take any chances with those two substances...

Each person takes their own risks with their own baby.

I agree mumto3girls - there isn't any point taking a risk and drinking regularly even small amounts isn't a great idea whether pregnant or not.

When you're pregnant you make a commitment to keep your body as clean and healthy as you can just like when you have a baby you make a commmitment to make your home as clean and healthy as you can.

My reproduction of work statistics showing FAS not being proven in light drinkers was posted in reaction to some of the claims in the article which I think were inaccurate and scaremongering.

i just genuinely don't understand the complacency some people have. I'm always so worried about my baby when I'm pregnant that i'd never have anything that may (even with tiny odds) harm them.
But if you say that some people get very defensive. If they are so sure of their choices, why get annoyed about other peoples opinion?

oh come on Fio i wasn't talking about all young girls i was talking about the drinking culture that 'young people' [ruty waves her walking stick in the air with a snarl] have nowadays. I just think it is confusing for some people and they are not sure how much is ok. Course i don't judge people who have a glass of wine or two. But i do think one should be able to have a valid debate about whether the current advice is confusing or not, and about how it might be improved.

i'm sure my mum had a few too many dubonnet and bitter lemons when she was pregnant with me and hey i'm ok. [left eye twitches]

This scares me, I didn't find out I was pregnant until I was about 10 or 11 weeks, and althought I'm not a big drinker at all, I had perhaps two or three nights out where I had about three large glasses of wine, and was absolutely stinking drunk, then another one or two occasions when I had one or two drinks but wasn't drunk.

Haven't drunk since except for a couple of sips of my friends wine, and the odd shandy made with about an eggcupful of dp's bitter.

Is it worse to get drunk in the first trimester then?

but you are not alone bananabump. Plenty of women don't find out until they are ten or 11 weeks gone. I'm sure your baby will be fine. But the confusion over the first trimester thing shows that docs need to provide clearer advice.