Interesting and disturbing article about foetal alcohol syndrome.

[Callisto]

I found this article in the Sunday Torygraph yesterday, thought you'd all be interested: here.

I know ...I know...

But when you look at a perfect beautiful baby and/or if you're having one what makes you continue to drink or smoke knowing you could (i'm not saying will) hurt them?

I give up I know I don't have that magic wand but it doesn't stop me wishing for it..

x-posted lulumama. I type too slowly...

but surely all babies are beautiful to their parents, even if they're not "perfect"?

InTheHouse Have you spoken to your GP or midwife about the advice you were given?

Dontlookatme - I can resist the roasted ones, the ready salted ones have been tormenting me. I bought some the other day as I thought I could have them while breastfeeding (later found out I shouldn't). So DH had to eat them all to remove the temptation!

Yes all babies whatever their problems are beautiful!!
What my point was, how can anyone consider their desires over the health of a baby?

i mean't perfect as a description of all babies as i did beautiful. I wasn't referring to babies without problems. Please don't think that.

Mumto3, its so easy to say 'You are uptight' or 'You are too lax with your childs safety' but I think the reality is we all do obviously care or we wouldnt be here talking about it!

Maybe its just individual risk thing- like people who let kids climb trees/ play conkers without safety goggles & stuff? And if we get it wrong we would be gutted- but I suppose we think 'what are the chances'? Especially when doctors etc say its ok... its an individual decision and I guess you stand by the consequences.

waves magic wand and produces bottle of delicious non-alcoholic champers

Thanks Glitterkitty...clinks glass and toasts us great debating mummies.

I totally agree with the dodgy statistics and details in the article.

I've done quite a lot of research into FAS at work and I've never heard of a baby being born with it when the mother drinks as little as 4 units a week. It is sustained, regular heavy drinking (for women over 7 units a week every week) OR serious binge drinking (one major binge can be damaging) that leads to FAS. I can't help but think the woman who says she had 4 units a week is either mistaken about the amount or is so racked with guilt she's played it down. It would be a nightmare thing to admit wouldn't it?

... Also pre-FAS, at the turn of the last century, women were frequently told to drink a pint of warm wine to counteract pregnancy nausea. Or to take a tot of ginger wine!

I'm not pro drinking during pregnancy by the way, just sensitive to not making women feel any more deprived than they need to be.

Oh blimey, I don't mean I totally agree with the dodgy statistics - I mean I agree with those who've pointed out their dodgyness.

FAS is a huge problem in orphanages in Russia and to a lesser extent in other countries. The issue to my mind is that pregnant mothers understand what alcohol abuse is - there seems to be a whole raft of woemn who are not aware how much is too much. Pointless aiming the advice at mothers who drink very small amounts the real risk is heavy drinkers who are generally badly informed about what a child with FAS is like.

Its like the MMR- doctors say have it, loads of people think theres a link to autism. But no-one knows for sure so you have to make your own decision...

Agree with mot making pg mums feel bad tho, I can put myself on a guilt trip far too easily in any case!

Oh yes, and a nice glass of guinness every evening to boost iron, as my grandmother had whilst p.g (as prescribed by a hospital doctor).
And my DP's mother who drank a glass of brandy almost every night and smoked like a trooper,(fair enough maybe she just got 'lucky')
but my DP is an M.A graduate and one of the smrtest people I know.

I had ds2 4 wks ago and throughout my preg the info in my notes said 1-2 units 1-2 x a week maximum.

With ds1 I had no clue I was pregnant, was using two forms of birth control. I was 22, singing in a band pub every night.
I got drunk - that would be 4 pints or more at least 3 x a week.
I found out I was pregnant at 11 weeks and stopped drinking straight away, piled guilt in stones on myself.
DS1 is fabulous, perfect and 13 now.
With dd I gave up before ttc, had cravings for lager (while suffering hypermesis FFS) and had one sip from one of dp's lagers maybe 3 x a week and I mean a small sip/tongue dip not a swig.

DD was born with a rare syndrome and Ifor weeks I blamed myself for it, thinking it was the beer.

I've been told it is def not FAS spectrum syndrome, it is a when sperm met egg problem.

this time with ds2 I lightened up, I would say I was a heavier than I was happy with drinker 18 mths ago (2-3 beers a night rarely a night off) I cut down to weekly drinking and moved to weak wine and soda.

When preg with ds2 I had the odd small glass of lager, the odd wine and soda, not even weekly.

It's a personal choice as I see it, if everyone is told that alcohol affects a foetus then as adults the person carrying the child is responsible for their welfare.

The same as telling people not to smoke/ski/do drugs

do you think that everyone does really understand how alcohol (I mean serious amounts) affects the foetus? It was something I had to learn about as FAS babies are commonly given up for adoption. Obviously some people are too addicted to care (same as for drug users) but I wonder if binge drinkers who don't accept that they are abusing alcohol ralise the risks. Perhaps they do but don;t think it would affect their babies for some reason.

"It's a personal choice as I see it, if everyone is told that alcohol affects a foetus then as adults the person carrying the child is responsible for their welfare."
but piff, it's the child who might have to live with the consequences that we should be concerned about surely?

I think so many people drink a lot one or two days a week

and it takes a while for them to know they are pregnant anf then to take it in

if they do cut down during pregnancy and I'm sure most do eventually

then they worry secretly about the effect on children

but they know people who have babies who look healthy

and so feel that it can't be such a bad thing after all

and the same goes for smoking...do people link the size of the baby or anything else with smoking/drinking or do they accept that is what their baby is like..fine

I clearly remember a young girl who was pregnant at the same time as me coming out with that old chestnut 'If I smoke I get a smaller baby'. That was only in 1996

there certainly are thousands of childrne in Russia born with it to alcoholic mothers. In some orphanages it is estimated to affect up to 40% of the children.

Agree that it should be the heavy drinkers getting the message not the moderate drinkers

I see I misunderstood.

I wish they wouldn't focus so much on moderate drinkers, it just seems to trivialise the real problem somehow.