Coup in Zimbabwe - 'bloodless transition'

[AuntieStella]

Though they say it's not a coup

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-41992351

The army has taken control - in what it describes as a bloodless transition - and has also said that Mugabe is safe (though they decline to say where he is)

It's on BBC Breakfast, but not getting that much reporting soon.

Who is likely to be installed as successor?

Just heard from my friend in Bulawayo too - bit noisy there just now.

(That's an actual self-portrait. My grin is that wide.)

fil is in bulawayo - not had a chance to speak with him as he's busy!!

They deserve to be having the time of their lives tonight especially those in Bulawayo. Slightly more sedate here as am in Paris but shall be seeking out my Zimbo mate - who also lives here - over the weekend for more than one or two . Never thought that I'd live to see this day .

Is your FIL the one who's a doctor, Boop? If so even more to him for staying. There's every possibility he's personally treated some of my nearest and dearest.

Anti I bet that your FIL is very 'busy' .

Ah, this is like the day it was announced Mandela was being released... but with folks around to share the joy!

Hap hap happy!

I hope not perking because he tends to see people who are very seriously ill. He's a pain in the arse as a fil but he is a good man when it comes to his work!!

I really hope things can improve from here but the senior military and zanu are so corrupt it will take a lot. First step in the right direction though!

I saw a lot of SA's on twitter wanting rid of zuma - maybe this will start a wave of optimism and action!

If anything it should serve as a stark warning to Zuma.

Forgive me for not understanding this but why do many African countries end up with dreadful leaders and have only a fleeting brush with democracy? Why do people keep voting for the same party? Can a second party never form a government? It’s depressing. I know that there have been threats and beatings in Zim, but why does SA only vote for one party? African leaders expect to, and do, stay in power for decades. Why do they abandon democracy they seemed to dearly want?France, USA, GB, Japan etc all change parties and leaders regularly. Why not in Africa? What can be done to allow democracy to flourish and long time leaders be removed? It’s very very anti economic growth and miserable for many people.

Colonialism, false borders and the imposition of a western political system on a culture it may not suit. For a start. It's quite a complex area but there's a lot of interesting books on the topic.

Similar reasons to the rest of the world; it's not especially an African thing. You mention Japan, but next door China isn't a democracy. You mention the USA, but "fleeting brush with democracy" describes the history of its counterpart superpower, Russia, to a T.

I've read of the frustration in the 1990s at what was happening in Russia, among people who'd worked in Africa. There'd been a lot of lessons learned from African countries' rapid transformations from colonial rule to independence during the 1950s-80s, and from their post-independence developments.

In the 1990s Russia was undergoing structural change for different reasons, ie transformation from communism to capitalism. But the risks were similar and many people seemed to blind to them - actively ignoring the knowledge hard won in Africa. There was an inherent belief that Africa was somehow different, and that Russia was Europe so everyone would behave completely differently in the face of the same incentives. Yeah right. Meet the robber baron oligarchs and Putin...

So the "Africa is special" belief can be pretty harmful.

Interesting cross-post, but in fact I'm not contradicting you, TheAntiBoop.

The same issues of colonialim and an imposed political system are visible in some Asian countries.

That's true - but Asian countries are in some ways a lot less democratic (I'm not including Japan!) as they have focussed on economic growth

The Russia thing is interesting as there is a lot of debate about whether the focus should have been on a free market economy with less democracy to begin with. The idea being that democracy grows with economic freedoms.

It's hugely complex and Africa is a huge continent so it isn't the same story for every country. South Africa has a different story to zim, as it does to Botswana and namibia.

BubblesBuddy

Thanks to European colonialism that ended only recently, African democracy is still very young. Zimbabwe is just 37 years old. Until 1980, it was led by a white minority. It is a country finding it's feet, and just as the process did elsewhere, it will take time.

There is nothing exceptional about Europe. Just 60 years ago, you had a war that killed thousands and thousands. Before the Second World War, England, for example, was defined by poverty and class divisions that meant that no working class people could aspire to political leadership.

Africa is going through its growing pains. The only difference between Europe and Africa is that when Europe was going through its pains, there were no television cameras.

Archbishop Sentamu has his collar back!

Archbishop of York ends decade of protest over Mugabe
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42128073

I saw him put the collar back on on TV this morning.