Yet another article re: why mothers should return to work

[boogiewoogie]

Just snatching a couple of minutes during a coffee break, will come back. What do you think of this?

if you read PrincessPeaHead further back in this thread, she was commenting that Xenia was making similiar waves in another cyber website not so long ago and she's not all she sems!

maybe she lives off the "attention" she gets in cyber space, thats why she feels the need to constantly go on about her life.

ssd - yes, I quite agree, Xenia is an attention seeker.

But as for not being all she seems, I too read PrincessPeaHead and, while I think it was a bit off limits for PPH to have written that post, I didn't get any surprises at all. I thought it all totally coherent with what Xenia had written about her family circumstances, modest northern Catholic background desperately aspiring to the upper middle classes and never feeling secure enough of her position to relax, enjoy life and have fun. I think it's fine to work hard and want a comfortable life but you do need to learn to enjoy the fruits of your labours too. All work and no play...

true and I agree with your comments re PPH's post

Xenia never comes across as very happy and content to me, too much "the lady protests too much" or wwhatever that comment is!!

I hope she gives the boards at MN some peace and starts to enjoy her life she's worked so hard for, for her own sake.

ssd - Xenia needs to fall in love...

ssd, that other post did not say I wasn't all I seemed. It was fairly accurate if you read it and I said so.

Most women work when their children are under 5 and find that is the best balance for them and most men do. Some mothers and some fathers choose to stay at home. The reason people should have freedom to write about other people's models is the reason I gave below that sometimes you have to challenge others. If we hadn't done that women wouldn't have even been able to vote, own property etc and would simply legally be the property of their hbusband as they are in some other countries where we ought indeed to be criticising their model and lobbying and educating rather than sitting back saying in XYZ country in Africa it is the national culture to beat a woman and we will not interfere, live and let live.

What I do think people can help with is ensure as many men as women choose flexible working where the couple wanta parent at home and that couples in their own home don't make assumptions the mother will be home and actually discuss whose career matters most, who will be most fed up at home, what is fair and whether additional paternity leave when it comes next year (6 months for the man etc) might be right for them rather than just saying mother gets the chance to form what some people see as a special 24/7 bond but the father is denied it because of them other's selfish choice to grasp the at home position without considering his feelings or giving him an effective choice.

You see what would sort this whole thing out would be if somebody could write loads of articles about how men are neglecting their children by going out to work. Ofcourse you'd have to do something else (hypnotism? drugs in the water supply?) to make them feeling quite as guilty as us women do, but maybe that would even things out a bit.

MadamePlatypus - my partner and I talk about these things a lot. The other night I asked him, with as much seriousness as I could muster, how he would feel if I said I wanted to take a very time-consuming but well-paid job and wanted him to stay at home/downsize his career considerably to ensure the smooth running of our domestic life.

He was taken in for a moment, looked at me and said "I don't think I'm quite feminised enough for that. I NEED to go out bear-hunting".

And that's the point - he doesn't need to feel guilty for not staying at home because he's out there slaying bears and bringing home the fruits of his labours for us all to feast on. And I don't need to feel guilty that I'm not out there bear slaying because I do all other things that the family needs. And we both enjoy our roles. And when one or the other needs some time off, we negotiate, quite peacefully... we're not at war with one another as to which one is better, more successful etc. We are complementary, both of us are needed.

In my partner's previous life, his wife went out to work. By their own admission, it was a two-father, no-mother family model. Didn't work.

I too spoke to my partner about this issue - and he spoke to me about his sacrifice of time with the children while out at work but that he feels ok about it because he knows they are being looked after by me - he feels that the gains and losses on both sides balance out because the children are happy. He also pointed out that though I would lose financially if we split he would lose the precious little time he has with his children. There are no winners in a relationship breakdown.

procrastinator - that's interesting. I asked my partner whether he feels differently about leaving our daughter (with me) during the day compared to leaving his sons (always with a nanny). And he sais yes, definitely, he NEVER worries about our daughter but he has always worried a lot about his sons and whether they were having a good time, being properly brought up etc.

My stepsons often tell their sister how lucky she is to be with her mother all day.

But most couples both work and most don't have those problems or issues. Many women like to hunt bears. Bear hunting is fun. I wouldn't be without it or be with a man who had a problem with my doing it. I want to hunt my own bears not feign admiration and flatter the ego of someone who would probably be worse at getting the bears than I would be anyway.

Message withdrawn

Anna, he would say that wouldn't he? He said to his wife he was happy she worked too and he probably loved her and was proud of her for doing that too. Just as if he didn't work you would admire his babysitting skills etc.

Anyway we're all different but many men would like more involvement at home and we need to ensure women don't deny them that chance. In fact most women don't and most men and women do both work so all this is a bit of a non issue except for the tiny minority of housewives there are an anachronistic financial unnecessary luxury which is fast dying out.

..probably said, I meant to say. We have no idea what they said to each other. I don't think having a house wife means your marriage is happier by any means. Often quite the contrary.

Xenia - you do reveal your own prejudices...

No-one in his household has to feign admiration or flatter the ego of anyone. We genuinely admire one another for what each one of us has achieved in life to date and for what we do day in day out. And we both work very hard at making our lives great. I have masses of skills my partner doesn't, and vice versa. And neither of us is jealous or envious of the other - I would hate to pilot a plane, for example, whereas he adores it. I have analytical skills and the ability to teach that he will never have. Doesn't matter, because each one of us gains from the others talents.

Xenia - he didn't divorce gratuitously. He wanted it (not she) but it caused him a lot of heartache. He tried and tried over many years to get her to stop being so busy, but failed. And you know what? Now she thinks she'd like to. Go figure...

Xenia - just saw your "we" below.

Don't you think you are being rather silly putting you and me in the same basket as to information about my partner's former marriage?

Why would I not know a hell of a lot more than you, who can only know what I write on MN?

I always want to despise Xenia because I think her political stance on social equality and justice is deeply and profoundly flawed. But despite myself I genuinely admire her dignified reponses to posts cruelly dissecting and judging a postulated version of her personal life, her marriage, her origins, her children's experiences.

scummy - Xenia only gets as good as she gives.

Wrong, imo, Anna8888. Xenia very rarely gets personal, ime. Her views may be strong and, in extrapolation, offensive to some but she does not tend to say deliberately hurtful things to individual posters.

scummy - read harder, Xenia makes gratuitous bitchy comments ALL THE TIME... however, she makes them with insufficient information and data to back them up so they don't have the effect she'd like

I disagree.

Anyway, I agree that housewifery doesn't make for a happy marriage. I am dead unhappy whenever I have to do housework yet would feel utterly guilty if my partner had to do all the drudgery for me. House work is a necessary bore that must be divided so no one feels peeved, imo. Equally, childcare and work are fun and must not be hogged by one party in this house because then the other will only have drudgery to contribute in order to even up their contribution.

But surely there is more to your life as a family that just housework, money work and bringing up your children?????????

Add in leisure and spending time with partner and extended family and friends. But otherwise that's about it. What is your point, exactly?

I agree with Scummy - I think picking over Xenia's life in the way that goes on here is highly distasteful. And Anna's rather gleeful obsession with Xenia's marriage failure is rather at odds with the fact that she has taken a marriage failure on as her own partner.

Xenia can ultimately only be responsible for her own relationship with her children. From what she writes here it appears to be good - and as some of her children are adults seemingly with happy independent lives, then Xenia has fullfilled what most of us would wish for our children. I imagine that the forebearance that she shows on here has helped her enormously as a mother and may be the key to why she has been successful.

Xenia cannot 'own' her exh's relationship with her children. She can (and often does) wish that it were different. But it isn;t. Only her exh can address that!

I wish that PPH had not written what she did on the other thread - it displayed a lack of judgement, not to mention good manners, that I have not observed from PPH before on this site. Nevertheless, I found what she wrote to be a rather faithful representation of how Xenia portray's herself on here. Someone who has worked hard for what she has achieved, who was not born with a silver spoon in her mouth and who sees education and hard work as a way to provide for her family. All pretty commendable stuff tbh!