Charlie Gard 20

[CremeFresh]

Don't know if anyone else has started a new thread .

Thanks everyone for the discussion today. I must go now but will look in another time.

You're welcome, all.

You know, it's funny/not funny the feelings that this has brought up in me. The 'rational' me knows that the child's comfort and quality of life is, and should be, paramount even over and above my selfish wishes to keep them with me. But the atavistic Americanism ingrained in me shouts 'but this is MY child, as the parent it's my right decide when to stop'. I expect Charlie's parents had a similar battle with themselves and in their case we know which decision they made.

The only life vs death decision I have had to make was for my father. Even in that it was really Mum's decision, and it was an easy one as he had lived his life fully and was suffering so. I cannot imagine having to make that choice for someone young, even if they were devastatingly ill or injured. I know I'd make the right decision in the end, but I never want to have to go through the mental process to 'get there'.

I do wonder if legal firms will be less willing to take on pro bono cases like this. I imagine the cost of this case has been huge not only the cost of the case but also in the cost of lost paid for work. I'm not sure there will be as much willingness to take on cases.

I may be wrong though.

This isn't related to children but it is about medical care for people who can no longer advocate for themselves, which I think will become a growing issue across the globe.

I know both my grandparents had medical intervention and were rescusitated and kept alive well beyond when they had any quality
of life.

If anyone has twenty minutes this is a really interesting podcast - all about a town in America which really encourages people to do a 'living will' where they specify at what point would they want the medical intervention to end (e.g at what point after dementia took hold). The town has saved massive amounts on healthcare, and I do feel I agree with the position that the quality of life is important and life should not be prolonged without quality.

itunes.apple.com/gb/podcast/planet-money/id290783428?mt=2&i=1000335248106

Across California actually just made a mandatory vaccination law, at least if your child goes to public or private school..no more personal belief exemptions. The states just vary so much culturally and law-wise, I think it's a huge cluster f*ck personally lol with federal law vs state laws.
I agree bubbles

There are plenty of cases where parents have to advocate for themselves. It is a very poor situation now regarding legal aid. The court process slows and it is just not fair. Only cases which are very important will get pro bono barristers. The parents have had the services of two QCs. Whether barristers think it worth their while to act in this way is presumably discussed case by case, but they cannot do them all!

I cannot see how they have a case, the April judgement is pretty watertight in setting out the agreed facts of the case. Arguably gosh did show the parents a duty of care by going back to the courts.

Civil cases are always judge decided, never a jury. What judge is going to open the floodgates by allowing it to happen.

The children act as well cannot be touch d by the judiciary that would have to go through Parliament.

I know I have done a law degree and work in legal publishing so have parliamentary training but I did not realise how little people grasp about the difference between government, parliament and the judiciary

The only life vs death decision I have had to make was for my father. Even in that it was really Mum's decision, and it was an easy one as he had lived his life fully and was suffering so. I cannot imagine having to make that choice for someone young, even if they were devastatingly ill or injured. I know I'd make the right decision in the end, but I never want to have to go through the mental process to 'get there'.
When my DF was at the end stages of cancer he was at home but it was becoming increasingly obvious that his pain was not being treated properly and he was not eating well. I had to make the decision for him to go into hospital even though he wanted to die at home. I had poa and my DF was not able to make any decisions at that point. Someone else had poa but was not living in the same house as DF and seeing his agony. This man told me I was sending my father into hospital to die. No I was sending him into hospital to have a more peaceful pain free ending. I did the right thing. However that does not stop me being fully sympathetic to these parents.
As Across said it is a visceral reaction.
I have watched a few videos relating to the case now. Especially Baroness Hale's summary and that sent chills down my spine.

Mary's- It's an NPR podcast so you can listen to it here:

www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/10/05/496751771/episode-521-the-town-that-loves-death

problm with privat civil cases its about money an sometimes thy settle out of court but this time i dont think they shoul it would be like admitting guilt

I think the problem is you are often making a different decision from other people. When you act on behalf of others it can cause controversy.
You just hope the choice might be the one they would make.
I chose to give birth at home with little pain relief, although my friend chose hospital fir the pain relief. Same set of circumstances, different choice.

www.express.co.uk/news/uk/834658/charlie-gard-latest-parents-great-ormond-street-hospital

That Express article has people blaming his condition on vaccinations! Dear god I do despair of the human race sometimes, why can't they just READ on a bit and carry out some critical thinking.

A few years back mitochondtial disease along with vaccines was the "latest" cause of autism. Everyone and his mother were claiming undiagnosed mito disease.
I thought Charlie never had any vaçcines because by the time they were due he was already too ill.

The Mirror FB page has to be the worst, maybe The Sun even worse? Real dregs of society commenting on something they know nothing about, CY reading and responding which is too sad.

TinselTwins there is no case.

critical thinking If I read that one more time I will scream.

Seconded derxa.

Beware stupid people in large numbers.

Sorry, that comment was meant to be directed towards the post about FB, The Sun, Mail, Mirror.