Charlie Gard 15

[cjt110]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6rPmvGlNhA&app=desktop

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

Timeline so far

August 4, 2016 Charlie born 8lb 3oz to Connie Yates and Chris Gard.

October 2016 Tests reveal mitochondrial depletion syndrome.
Believed to be only 16th sufferer in the world of rare strain.

Autumn 2016 Miss Yates finds specialist in US testing nucleoside therapy, but it has never been tried on Charlie’s rare type.

January Gosh doctors say drug would be futile because of irreversible brain damage. Parents contact US doctor.

March Gosh asks High Court to let Charlie die. Mr Justice Francis gives parents a month to make case for treatment. Daily Mail readers help raise £197,000 in days to help fly Charlie to US.

April Doctors say he is likely to be in pain. Judge rules Gosh should let him die.

May Court of Appeal upholds ruling. Parents appeal to Supreme Court.

June Supreme Court rejects appeal. On June 27, European judges back decision. Gosh gives parents more time with Charlie. Pope Francis intervenes, followed by Donald Trump on July 3.

July 7 Seven scientists hand Gosh fresh evidence showing higher survival chances.

July 10 Mr Justice Francis gives parents 48 hours to produce new evidence in case.

July 13 US specialist Dr Michio Hirano invited to London by High Court

July 17 Dr Hirano examines Charlie.

July 21 Court told scan results ‘very sad’.

Today, 24 July, High Court due to rule on the case, ten days before Charlie’s birthday.

@JoshuaRozenberg

Francis J: only by reading the four judgments can commentators understand the full picture.

Obvs C & C have been aware that this was the result coming down for at least a few days. How horrible for them to have to remain silent when they probably just wanted to shout 'leave us alone' to the rabble-rousers on CA.

Good that he is commenting on the lack of legal aid

I don't think it's good for the parents to still feel that GOSH is to blame, I think it will deepen their grief and anger, I was so hoping that an agreement had been reached together.

I think they want to scream and shout and blame anyone and everyone, who wouldn't?

They have been holding out on the prospect of their child improving and living, people have been telling them to fight and by hell they have fought, but now this will be a raw start to a grieving process.

They have only just accepted his case is hopeless, anyone would look for someone to blame.

jellypi3, no GOSH lawyers were paid. I thought it was under insurance but someone on here who I think was more knowledgable said that they 'self insure', it comes from central funds.

Rache I sort of know where you're coming from with that. I think they should have condemned what was happening to GOSH and didn't but they themselves made no threats. I think Laura Gard is mostly at fault through the CA page and not condemning and removing the offensive posts throughout this sad affair.

ys judg childs welfare is paramount

I do hope the Pastor leaves the court silently.

Francis J: only by reading the four judgments can commentators understand the full picture.

i.e. EDUCATE YOURSELF.

Connie is taking the stand

@skyrobcatherall

Connie Yates standing to address court now

@skyrobcatherall

Judge - I do encourage the many commentators who wish to opine on this case to read judgement made in April (and ECHR + Supreme Ct judgement

@JoshuaRozenberg

Francis J: mediation should be attempted in all cases, including one such as this. Anything that helps sides to understand each other helps.

serf as i understand it the parents have changed their position based on the new scans that were done last week, the ones that the GOSH lawyer called "sad reading".

I don't really think anyone should be sued here (although the CA need a lesson in libel and defamation). I think this has been a dreadfully sad case, played out in a dreadfully awful way...

I normally hate it when people say "lessons to be learned" but if ever there was a case for how not to play out a case in public, this was it.

Charlie Gard has been a lesson to us all across so many spectrums (medicine, psychology, law) and got us all talking, sharing thoughts and personal experiences, seeing from another person's perspective and that is a good thing that can come from this, especially as above all else, the rights of the child have been protected .

I hope that this now fades from public view, for the privacy of all concerned for the next few weeks, months and how ever long it takes. C&C will need time and space and good help away from the barmy CA.

Hirano could never have cured Charlie, it remains unclear why the parents thought they could take Charlie there for treatment without Hirano having had a chance to examine him or have up to date scans. From the recent tweets it mentions 'consensus' so I infer from that that Hirano was not prepared to treat him either. It was never a cure though.

I am also unsure about the parents not having anything to do with threats against the staff tbh.

Are the protests still going on outside? I'm in the US and can't get a live TV stream?

I hope by now they realize that C&C are accepting the decision and trying to find peace and quiet time with Charlie and that the crowd will shut up and leave.

@skyrobcatherall

The last 12 months have been the best, worst and most life changing of our lives

@JoshuaRozenberg

Correction: Connie Yates,

@JoshuaRozenberg

Connie Gard leaves her seat and moves to the witness box.

a yes of course i remember friendly thanks, yeah the central NHS fund that will pay for any litigation!

Serf I think it's their response.
Clearly the test results were so bad that it must have been clear that no treatment could help Charlie.
So they must have known Friday there would be no way the judge would overturn his decision.

@JoshuaRozenberg

Connie: he is not brain dead.

@JoshuaRozenberg

Connie: this is the hardest thing we've ever had to do. Following most recent MRI scan we've decided to let our son go.

sashh that was my comment, I said it because I was hoping that Armstrong wouldn't be quite so encouraging of blaming GOSH.

@JoshuaRozenberg

Connie: a whole lot of time has been wasted.

SerfTerf There was a meeting with GOSH thismorning..maybe the parents really took on board for the first time how desperately sick Charlie is.
Maybe the scales fell from their eyes..One hopes they are totally private saying ''Goodbye'' to their dear Son.
CA pages should be shut down.

@skyrobcatherall

Charlie's quality of life could have been improved greatly (by earlier treatment)

@JoshuaRozenberg

Connie: treatment would have improved his quality of life.

Why don't all the balloon wavers just go home?