Charlie Gard 12

[muckypup73]

This is a thread following the legal and ethical questions raised by the recent court case involving Charlie Gard.

Please could we refrain from insulting or otherwise "bashing" his parents. It isn't in the spirit of Mumsnet and will get the threads removed.

Please could we also remember that at the heart of this case is a terminally ill baby and his heartbroken parents. There are those participating in and watching this thread for whom these issues are painful. Please let's try and be mindful of them when we post. This isn't a place for name calling or trivialising the very real pain they feel. Many parents of severely disabled children are on here.

Lastly, here are some hopefully useful reference points of facts surrounding the case.

13 July GOSH position statement on latest hearing (includes update on Charlie's condition):
www.gosh.nhs.uk/file/23611/download?token=aTPZchww

7 July GOSH statement on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/news/latest-press-releases/latest-statement-charlie-gard

June 2017 Supreme Court decision:

May 2017 Court of Appeal Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/410.html

April 2017 High Court Decision:
www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Fam/2017/972.html

GOSH FAQ page on Charlie:
www.gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

@FetchezLaVache

If he'd been born in the US I very much doubt he'd be alive right now.

I agree Darth that there are different types within CA.

They are blaming his puffiness on the morphine now on CA, does morphine do that?

There may be different "types" but the vast majority are not rational. Therefore, it might be instructional to read their posts but hardly remotely truthful, in the main. I think others have explained the puffiness earlier.

I think the puffiness is likely his heart or kidney starting to struggle or probably both. Not a good sign at all. GOSH did say the signs of detoriation are already there in their statement last week

Rhodiolia, well my dad died in March and was on a morphine pump. He was so skinny it was like hugging a toddler. Not a puff in sight. However he died of cancer, so maybe not comparable.

Yes, morphine can cause bloating.

Side effects - " Bloating or swelling of the face, arms, hands, lower legs, or feet"

@BubblesBuddy

I don't think the majority are "rational" either tbh but I do not think they are all approaching the campaign from the same perspective.

There's a discrepancy between the investment they have in this case for a start. The blue heart brigade will disperse and move on. The few minutes it takes to post/tweet a short message is the extent of the effort they are prepared to put in.
As they seem to be the largest group imho I think it says a lot about just how fickle "support" on social media can be.

Other groups will probably be referring to this case for years to come. It's "bigger" than Charlie - he's inadvertently become a "poster boy" for their own agenda.

Charlie may not need to be actively resuscitated on a vent but he may well have become unstable and needed urgent treatment to restabilise him. His organs can still fail, his heart can still stop. All the vent does is force oxygen in and out of his lungs to make his body keep breathing, his heart, kidneys and liver have been mentioned in court docs as affected and although at the time of those court docs this wasn't severe the poor lad's illness has progressed rapidly. The seizures also won't be doing him any good.

'Side effects - " Bloating or swelling of the face, arms, hands, lower legs, or feet"'

Rockysluv Can you link to your source for that please? Thanks.

My quick google suggests it's from here

www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/morphine-and-naltrexone-oral-route/side-effects/drg-20073309

Just catching up on CA memebers commenting "now that he is a US citizen the judge can't stop him " etc
I just watched the video of the US politician introducing the amendment- she said this is " just to help the paper work etc if the UK court let him try the treatment and send to US. The family already have money and our excellent doctors have agreed to treat him , so we don't have to spend public funds etc on him "
Not only has he not been granted citizenship once their money runs out they are on their own 😳 And for a child in ventilator on American ICU 1.3 million pounds will run out very quickly.
I doubt CA will always keep donating- they will go to the next big story which they can fight about .

This farce is becoming unbearable.
Charlie may not need to be actively resuscitated on a vent but he may well have become unstable and needed urgent treatment to restabilise him. His organs can still fail, his heart can still stop. All the vent does is force oxygen in and out of his lungs to make his body keep breathing, his heart, kidneys and liver have been mentioned in court docs as affected and although at the time of those court docs this wasn't severe the poor lad's illness has progressed rapidly. The seizures also won't be doing him any good.

This made me cry. I'm so glad these threads are here, I said it before, but they're a haven of sanity compared to the rest of what's out there. Thanks to all the mumsnetters that have contributed thoughtful and intelligent posts from all the different angles. I sincerely hope some long-term good comes from all of this. We need more honest discussions around the reality and inevitability of death and how to handle it better, for a start, and somehow we must give people in these situations, where the death seems so very wrong and unfair, better support, so that they are not left vulnerable to being taken over by the crazies. That's my angle, coming at this as a retired psychotherapist.

I have for the first time looke onto Charlie's army FB page & then looked at the link to charleisarmy shop 😳
I cannot believe they have made a business out of it ! If they already raised the money, why is the shops still selling all the Charlie staff? Is it even going directly to C&C ?
Some of the comments in CA page are lol- Someone said I don't believe any media reports unless it's on here. No wonder they all are in denial!

I don't want to start a bum fight but morphine in babies rarely brings on "bloating" as a previous poster indicated. Plus Charlie is likely to be on a minimal dosage.

Without access to his medical file - chances are the "bloating" is caused by renal and cardiac failure.

Not my area of expertise workwise but is in personal life (if that makes sense).

bun fight - sorry. I am just dipping in and out of thread and typing in a hurry,

I have no idea about the effects of morphine btw and especially not in this case, but that was the first page I found when I googled.

Maryz. See my comments above!! None of these people are rational human beings.

Darth - yes I do agree. They do have different agendas but none of it is worth a candle!

I can't help wondering what a bum fight would involve

Large arses??? lol

I was going to suggest the "winner" is the biggest asshole