Why has Corbyn asked to meet EU Negotiator Barnier next week to discuss Brexit?

[TheaSaurass]

I know that team Corbyn claimed Labour won the June 8th General Election with Labour’s 262 parliamentary seats to the Conservatives 318, but now Article 50 has been triggered, the last thing a government needs is the leader of an opposition party deciding he needs to add his two pence worth – and that sends such weak negative negotiating signals to an EU side already playing hardball – and the markets funding our spending deficits and national debt.

Admitted Labour campaigned at the general election for a Brexit that respects the EU Referendum result, and understands that the UK will therefore have to leave the Single Market, but mirroring the obvious UK governments stance to an EU that sells substantially more to us than we do to them, Mr Corbyn wants the tariff free trade Mr Barnier confirmed just Friday – cannot be “frictionless” as we are leaving the Single Market to control our own borders.

Remarkably Mr Corbyn felt that he should mention Labour will not make a commitment “at this stage” (before an election due in 5-years has been called) to paying for access to a Single Market exporting more to us, but he DID just bring up the ‘Norway model’ he was said to have favoured before.

The ‘Norway model’ is more complex than (the UK) STILL paying the EU and still having the ‘Freedom of Movement’ of EU citizens who arguably would be more of a problem for a broader 65 million citizen economy UK, than the smaller 5 million economy of Norway – but for those remainers that pretend no one said on the Referendum ballot paper or in the media that we would leave the Single Market when many on interview were recorded saying just that – clearly no one at all said ‘Freedom of Movement’ of EU citizens, would remain after Brexit.

As what would be the main point of the UK leaving the EU if still ‘staying and paying’, with open borders, via a model that works for a mainly oil and fish economy of Norway with a more limited scope for unknown annual immigration numbers, versus a UK with services and home availability already stretched?

The General Election was early June, it is now early July, surely it’s a bit unseemly if anyone, never mind a party not in government, to start a dialog with the EU on a Brexit model that includes ‘Freedom of Movement’ without having first asked the people, via a general election manifesto commitment?

Surely one of the big issues with the whole brexit vote was that it was just about in or out of eu,not about any specific details or terms so everything else even at this point is just guess work. And I think this country needs strong opposition and it's good for us that leader of the opposition is putting pressure on government by not just rolling over and accepting any scrap deals. He needs to know what the options are to make stronger case for alternatives when the government finally decides what it wants to do wrt brexit.

YTho

Firstly until negotiations begin, never mind end, I would suggest that whether an EU, or Scottish Independence Referendum, one side can lay down as many demands as they like, but until the other side, whether 27 other member states with a non elected Brussels bureaucracy OR 3 other members of a union gives THEIR final terms – there is little end detail that CAN be given 2-years before, as a ‘fact’.

The governments position has been all along to try keep as many of the benefits of EU membership, without ‘Freedom of Movement’ to the EU and stop continuing to contribute to an EU still looking to expand membership to counties like Bosnia - within an EU 'model' that transfer wealth from the larger staes, to the smaller ones.

Opposition for opposition sake is counter productive when either trying to force their own agenda or refusing to acknowledge the facts on the other side – and the facts could not have been clearer from the EU that if we wish to END ‘Freedom of Movement’ with the EU the UK cannot remain within the EU Single Market – as mentioned by very senior EU official Mr Tusk and Juncker last year, and Mr Barnier himself a few days ago (all below)..

'Hard Brexit' or 'no Brexit' for Britain – Tusk
'
"No revenge' in Brexit but market access needs migration" – Juncker

'Frictionless trade' with EU 'not possible' post-Brexit

“Mr Barnier said he was unsure the EU's refusal to grant piecemeal access to the single market and insistence on controlling standards in the single market "have been fully understood across the channel".

Now Labour’s position is below, and shows that if they cannot listen to what the other side is telling them is cast in stone e.g. an end of ‘Freedom of Movement’ here giving EU citizens jobs here they cannot create over there, this means that we cannot have ALL Single Market benefits – and so whether in government or not, it shows they are not even on a basic level, up to such important negations.

“Labour will not support any Brexit deal without the "exact same benefits" as the single market brings, Sir Keir Starmer says.”

Mr Corbyn has been an MP since 1983, has no national or international commercial/contractual experience, and as far as I can see, he (or McDonnell) has not been trusted by his own party to hold a Labour ministerial or shadow position – so why on earth does he think he has the experience, never mind an electoral mandate, to get involved in negotiations of the most important UK international deal for 50-years, on our behalf?

YTho

The fact is that whether a UK opposition party that has a record of politically campaigning against Brexit, then pretends that a ‘Soft’ Brexit was EVER on the EU’s table, rather than have the round sphericals to democratically STAND at a general elections for the ‘Free Movement of EU citizens’ to and from the UK should continue – or either through delusion, or political calculation, goes to say ‘hello’ to the EU’s Chief Negotiator as the government in waiting – it sends the completely wrong message to the EU negotiating camp.

That message is that the UK political elites are not only split on Brexit, but trying to overthrow an elected minority UK government supported on a ‘Confidence and Supply’ vote by a pro Brexit DUP - that both the Conservatives and a Labour coalition (including the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru and Greens) – would have needed for a 2017 general election, majority.

Mr Barnier would no doubt muse on the missed post June 8th possibility of a revolutionary Labour leader and chancellor, organising UK marches to Brussels, to overthrow them as well.

Back to reality, EU Negotiators therefore can totally rely on numerous Westminster MPs (and the Lords) to cause endless problems for the government (and the majority of UK citizens that either voted to leave, or just want them to be able to get on with leaving), due to whatever agendas they have - and so effectively ENCOURAGING the EU to offer the UK the Brexit “scrap” (crap?) deal”, you and the rest of us fear.

Whether in hard negotiations on a collectable, a car, a home, or even an international settlement that will have potential consequences for generations to come, and whether a counterpart in those negotiations means it or not.

As a negotiating position, indicating you are prepared to walk away from a BAD deal, is both perfectly acceptable practice and certainly better than accepting a bad national deal - especially if the other side is clearly trying to punish you in order to keep their other 27 ‘ducks’ in line, and currently silent EU businesses would want a fair tariff free trade deal.

“EU referendum: Trade curbs 'foolish' if UK votes Leave, says German industry”

At PMQT today, Labour’s Emily Thornberry standing in for Jeremy Corbyn (as PM May was meeting ‘the reign from Spain’) I believed used all of her questions asking, just weeks after negotiations have begun, what the UK consequences will be, from a UK walking away from a very one sided EU deal so far being discussed, on their citizens employment and ECJ rights here they don’t have anywhere else (outside the EU), a Euro 60-100 billion 'divorce' bill without an invoice breaking it down, a penal trade deal with an EU that sells more to us than we do to them etc etc etc.

Forgetting for one moment that HM Opposition party Labour campaigned for a Brexit should be on this country’s side and shouldn’t be ask HM Government, 2-years away, how FAR they will really go in negotiations with the EU (and so assisting EU Negotiators), it is now perfectly clear that Labour would ACCEPT a bad EU deal, so no wonder when Mr Corbyn invites himself to meet EU Chief Negotiator Barnier as ‘the government in waiting’ – that Brussels rolls out the ‘red carpet’ for him.

Re the audience with Mr Barnier in Brussels today, there was HM Opposition leader Corbyn for Labour, the Labour 1st Minister for Wales Carwyn Jones, and the SNP 1st Minister for Scotland Nicola Sturgeon there – but if this was a UK related coach party, why was there no representative from Northern Ireland?

Well rumour has it, they put in a petition for Islington, Wales and Scotland to stay in the EU, but I’ll get back to you on that.

Why has Corbyn asked to meet EU Negotiator Barnier next week to discuss Brexit?
thank you for the answer thea. very interesting and rather more congent than mine, which would be to say that he's a cunt, that has no interest in the interests of the UK. He ran a dismal Referendum campaign, and now we're coming out (partly thanks to him) is determined to screw it up for purely party political reasons.
Sorry for lowering the tone, it's just that I feel so angry about it.

COGENT not congent

No worries on the tone from me, and thanks for revising that 'c' word. lol

We're screwed either way, so let Corbyn have his say if it makes him happy.

I agree with you lucy

Corbyn is all about the headlines - same as Sturgeon.

Why should we make the c... 'cogent' happy and reward someone demanding he becomes leader of this country, yet every major position he stands on i.e. Trident, Scottish Independence, the EU etc, he keeps changing his position depending on both who he is talking to at the time, and get him closer to being the largest party in parliament.

When critics say Labour has had several positions on the EU they are not joshing; in the Single Market, out of the Single Market, in the Customs Union, out of the Customs Union, in the Norway model, but out the Single Market....which proves he is just an appeaser, and EU Negotiator Barnier (and his coalition partner Sturgeon) would rip him a new ass, and get what they wanted.

I'd personally rather take my chances with Corbyn than with that May woman. As for Corbyn having different stances, he has to deal with his own preferences, the preferences of the parliamentary Labour Party, the preferences of the rest of the Labour party that have voted for him over and over again and preferences of the British people and he is doing a pretty good job of it.

I like Corbyn. I'm not a labour voter, but I find it really refreshing to have someone who is prepared to stick up for his ideals, which I also agree with.

I live overseas and some of your 'freedom of movement' talk really bothers me. Do you think people should just live in the country that they happen to be born in, with no moving to other countries?

Telling people what they want to hear, or being kind 'trying to be all things to all people' NEVER produces 'a leader of men', especially one who would be our Commander in Chief defending us, never mind trying to negotiate the biggest national deal in over 50-years - never having been trusted by his own party to 'shadow' a government minister, never mind be promoted to one, since becoming an MP.

Clearly there are still 'open sores' in the Labour Parliamentary Party with his leadership, but I guess he is having problems reconciling his 'kinder, more democratic' style of leadership on the one hand, and his threats via his minions, of deselection if THEY don't get in line, on the other hand.

History shows us that party's within party's, never ends well for the party, never mind the people.

Well good for you then. You haven't answered one of my questions.

You don't have to. If you just want to rant about how terrible Jeremy Corbyn is then go for it. I disagree with you.

AvaCrowder2

As you say, you do not live in this country, and Freedom of movement’ did not socially work for us, having 2-3 million new citizens in a few years put a lot of pressure on our housing and services, the EU didn’t seem to care enough about, to even ‘suspend’ their rules to ease the pressure when told it could lead to us leaving the EU.

In 2009 our housing charity ‘Shelter’ issued a damning warning on the condition of social housing, including that there were 1.7 million families (5 million people) queuing for homes, while others had problems getting on the housing ladder as with cheap money, huge new demand, home prices multiplied from 1997.

And while the currently vague on free movement Mr Corbyn (keen on the Norway model) was not in the last Labour government, few trust them with UK immigration based on their secret policy on the issue in 2000 – before the EU flows really got going.

Anyway, all this was an issue pre EU Referendum, and the vote came in.

AvaCrowder2

Don't 'bunch', you said you don't live here, I previously answered Atencos question, now you have YOUR answer, but as I saw, the vote is already in.

should be 'as I said'.

Obviously you are a fulltime Tory campaigner, TheaSaurass. I'm glad you are happy with the status quo. Personally I am shocked at the deterioration of the country and find Theresa May quite inadequate for the job she has.

Wow, full marks for L O N G Boring Stences. Neah. Don't agree with TheaS. If we must Brexit, Norway model is about as good as it gets.

Damn you for your long boring sentences thea. And stick to one syllable words as well. Intelligence is like, SO overrated

TheaSaurass what are you doing for living?

antimatter...whaddsitmattertoyou?

What are you going to ask next, where do I live, am I single, or just so you can come around and slash our tyres?

If you can't debate without getting personal don't worry about my status (you ain't my type).

ava - do you think that people didn't move to other countries before freedom of movement (within the EU)? It didn't stop my dh working abroad to not have FOM.

Mr Corbyn went to deliver an Arsenal shirt!

Thea has hit the nail on the head. The UK has no wish to receive more migrants seeking a better life. The pressure on housing, education and the NHS is already untenable. Some 13,000 people annually were expected to come after 2004 when the accession countries were allowed free entry. Between 2004 and 2013, the number rose from 170,000 to 1.24 million.

Using figures from the 2001 and 2011 census data, the number of people stating their faith as Muslim rose from 1.5 million to 2.7 million. The official guesstimate is that there are at least another million illegals who presumably didn't fill in census forms. That is three mid-sized provincial cities unknown to the system, for whom provision cannot be made.

Expressing concern at this rate of population increase by voting to leave the EU must have seemed like the only opportunity to say "enough already". Whatever fine qualities and talents the individuals bring to the country personally, en masse the volume is too big to absorb so quickly.