Why has Corbyn asked to meet EU Negotiator Barnier next week to discuss Brexit?

[TheaSaurass]

I know that team Corbyn claimed Labour won the June 8th General Election with Labour’s 262 parliamentary seats to the Conservatives 318, but now Article 50 has been triggered, the last thing a government needs is the leader of an opposition party deciding he needs to add his two pence worth – and that sends such weak negative negotiating signals to an EU side already playing hardball – and the markets funding our spending deficits and national debt.

Admitted Labour campaigned at the general election for a Brexit that respects the EU Referendum result, and understands that the UK will therefore have to leave the Single Market, but mirroring the obvious UK governments stance to an EU that sells substantially more to us than we do to them, Mr Corbyn wants the tariff free trade Mr Barnier confirmed just Friday – cannot be “frictionless” as we are leaving the Single Market to control our own borders.

Remarkably Mr Corbyn felt that he should mention Labour will not make a commitment “at this stage” (before an election due in 5-years has been called) to paying for access to a Single Market exporting more to us, but he DID just bring up the ‘Norway model’ he was said to have favoured before.

The ‘Norway model’ is more complex than (the UK) STILL paying the EU and still having the ‘Freedom of Movement’ of EU citizens who arguably would be more of a problem for a broader 65 million citizen economy UK, than the smaller 5 million economy of Norway – but for those remainers that pretend no one said on the Referendum ballot paper or in the media that we would leave the Single Market when many on interview were recorded saying just that – clearly no one at all said ‘Freedom of Movement’ of EU citizens, would remain after Brexit.

As what would be the main point of the UK leaving the EU if still ‘staying and paying’, with open borders, via a model that works for a mainly oil and fish economy of Norway with a more limited scope for unknown annual immigration numbers, versus a UK with services and home availability already stretched?

The General Election was early June, it is now early July, surely it’s a bit unseemly if anyone, never mind a party not in government, to start a dialog with the EU on a Brexit model that includes ‘Freedom of Movement’ without having first asked the people, via a general election manifesto commitment?

I disagree slightly abi in that I don't think that many of Thea's posts have been about brexit. They purport to be, but quickly spin off on a tangent of "Conservatives vs Labour" even when its not particularly relevant. Ask her what the time is, and she will tell you that under a Marxist Corbyn government all watches would be re-distributed and time would be nationalised.

another bitchy post squishy? I thought you were over that?

I don't like needless bitchiness.
But if I will say what I need to make my point, even if you think that is bitchy. Report it if you like Lucy.

sorry, I didn't realise it was necessary bitchiness.

My point was that certain posters will try to shoehorn the same point into every discussion, no matter how irrelevant even to the point where it gets very repetitive. What was your point?

My point? Whatever you think of thea's posts, there's always lots in interesting information in them, whether you agree with it or not. A lot of the disagreement with him/her, and similar posters, boils down to personal criticism, instead of engaging with what they say, which seems a shame.

I engage with plenty of her posts. I try to answer questions when other posters ask them, and I try to engage properly without going off on a tangent or derailing the thread too much (which is happening now, btw). But sometimes this feels like having a conversation with a party political broadcast.

Squishy - there's a good reason for that - there is no plan for Brexit, so although Thea purports to want to discuss it, nothing is really happening that was "supposed to". The fact we get daily articles on some other industry that will be derailed if we don't stay in the single market or how embarrassing it is for our 'Brexit team' to be having a 30min meeting on our countries' future in Brussels with no paperwork, merely exposes the lack of plan. Thus it is far easier for her/him to result to political viewpoints rather than the job in hand. Very similar to what the actual government is doing tbf.

I am not expecting magic but IF, the EU countries sell more to us than VV, and trade ex-EU is growing faster than intra-EU as I read, then being outside the fence strikes me as having positives. The price of food will increase but as the UK population spends a lot less % disposable income on food than most other countries, then it shouldn't be a huge wrench to spend the food budget on the produce from UK farms. Or Commonwealth producers for stuff like avocados and bananas. I buy fruit in winter from Morocco, via Tesco. Presume that is covered by Tesco's contracts rather than the EU.

I do think the EU is bent on scaring the UK into toeing the lines they prefer. And I would concede that UK farmers need the seasonal labour provided by east European migrant pickers. I picked grapes in France for min agricultural wage in 1977, it wasn't riches but it was, for then, a fair wage. (hard work too).

"I buy fruit in winter from Morocco, via Tesco. Presume that is covered by Tesco's contracts rather than the EU."

Its covered by both.

It is not quite true that nothing is happening that was supposed to on Brexit. Everything is happening as it is supposed to surely or most of it - we served the Art 50 notice, the talks have started, the EU produced the EU27 position paper, the UK produced its white paper on brexit and just after the Queen's Speech the UK has published the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill which many of us have been looking at.
The UK hkas also issued a very recent position paper on on going legal proceedings relating to the EU for when we withdraw and before www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/627910/FINAL_OFF_SEN_Position_paper_HMG_Ongoing_Union_judicial_and_administrative_proceedings_Position_Papers_FINAL_120717__2___1_.pdf

The negotiations may or may not go well and they will be certainly be hard but things are happening which were planned to happen by both sides.

Squishy

Firstly this was a curious thread to bring up ‘’Conservatives vs Labour” politicking, as the subject is about just that, questioning Corbyn and Sturgeon’s vague or anti Brexit credentials in representing the UK’s Brexit position to an EU’s chief negotiator, trying to rip our eyes out - CAN be in the INTERESTS of the UK, and neither you or abi have chosen not to do that – your views seem to be a solid party political approval, without an ‘in the interests of the UK’ reason, while focusing on ‘squishing’ the debate e.g. ‘concerned’ about a poster, or numbers of posts across threads in one day.

But I’ll agree with you that I often end up bringing up the two parties, as there seems on here a broad poster input of ‘be dissatisfied with the government’, which can be a more powerful form of politicking as there is no mention of how what went on BEFORE 2010 dramatically shaped this governments policies, or bring into a debate the ‘alternative’, whose manifesto (by a self confessed Marxist) will repeat those pre 2010 mistakes, and then some.

So unless you want to engage with me why a party leader, still undecided on key issues and who has devoted his previous political life to the ‘struggles’ of other around the world trying to take on their own governments/authorities - or the another party leader that is SO anti Brexit it must chaff daily, can HELP the UK government (they pathologically hate) to secure a good Brexit deal – then as Lucysky says, lets leave it there.

Lucky I was thinking along the lines of EURATOM, EMA, lack of clarity for the banking and business industry over the single market - for example.

These were all supposed to be 'non-issues' and Liam Fox is still saying it will be a "simple" process.

"Firstly this was a curious thread to bring up ‘’Conservatives vs Labour” politicking"

I brought it up in response to a pp who accuse you of being on mumsnet ONLY to talk about Brexit. Not curious at all. (Seriously though, she has a point in that there are some quite fun/interesting threads on here that you're missing out on.)

I have made many posts on this thread that directly address the thread title. RTFT, because I can't be bothered to repeat myself. I can't say that Corbyn's approach to Brexit is in the UK's interests, because I don't think ANY Brexit is in the UK's interests. But, seeing that we have to leave, I don't see why we can't leave in a sensible, non-economically-suicidal way. I don't see why we have to give up on parliamentary democracy either. Why do we have to turn a mistake into a catastrophe?

What a silly statement based on the state of the State in 2010 and a then government clueless what to do without a sticky plaster chequebook (and so did NOTHING like rabbits in headlights), versus now - and you accuse me of political bias?

I take my hat off to anyone who understands WTF Thea is on about - apart from basically shouting Tories - Yay! Labour - Boo! at the top of his voice.

"But, seeing that we have to leave, I don't see why we can't leave in a sensible, non-economically-suicidal way."

Those are very strong words to describe the current approach, and you obviously believe very strongly that the Corbyn - Sturgeon 'mission' to Brussels had an alternative approach, what WAS it?

Discuss

(Or is it just what I see Tories Boo ! Tories Boo! Tories Boo!)

BTW I see the anti Tory 'flanking' movement between our coalition in waiting usual suspects is entering a knew phase for the general election Mr Corbyn 'can feel in his water', - TODAY telling the business community looking for some stability - that he who will use them to fund his big State vision, is "the government in waiting" around the corner.

I can still hear their cries of Yay

”Corbyn on the Road in Scotland Betting on a Second U.K. Election”

”Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn will hold mass rallies in Scotland, touring areas he thinks he can snatch away from Theresa May’s Conservatives in anticipation of another snap election in Britain.”

"snatch"?
I'm confident most leave voters have finally realised what a complete mess Brexit is and will be. Have you managed to come up with anything positive about it yet?
*please use real issues, i.e not EU army avoidance (why we wouldn't want to be part of that anyway I have no idea), more money for NHS (clearly not, the opposite in fact) or fishing (which we have no way of patrolling our new found waters without great cost) or some imaginary trade deal that Boris has come up with on the back of a napkin.

JeffreyNeedsAHobby.

Thats a short post, but a wide ranging set of questions, so I will condense.

Firstly it is a myth that the EU, with falling share of global emerging GDP/output (soon 15%), a Eurozone with twice our unemployment, over 50% of the the young on Temp Contracts and a one-sized-fit-all currency and interest rate that cannot work - WAS much of a future for a UK to base/rely on so much of its trade with, in the first place.

Negotiations have just started, on the EU's strict subject order, with quite unreasonable demands that were never going to reach a compromise in a week or so.

On Trade, the UK's strength is in services, but while a larger part of our total trade is with the EU (around 40% as has been falling), the EU exports far more to the UK in CASH terms - so it is in our mutual interest to keep as much trade tariff free as we can - as their businesses will end up paying several more billion in tariffs, if they were imposed say on WTO rules.

I suspect which is why the EU wants to talk about trade, LAST, and those in Brussls so unaccountably disconnected from citizens and businesses, are yet to get lobbied by Eurozone businesses that will be so adversely effected, should a bad deal offered to the UK, result in no deal and World Trade Organisation rules, .

On the NHS, re extra money the UK Exchequer will have when NOT paying annually a net £10-13 billion a year into the EU coffers - which could be much higher in the years to come whether due to the new several members lining up e.g. Bosnia, OR a reduction in the Thatcher Rebate we have had since the mid 1980s a senior EU face wants cut IF end up remaining - clearly NO EU contribution money will be free, until stop paying in.

On fish, the only thing I can think of is that we have had radar for quite o don't need to have eyes on them, and who in Euro would want to mess with Scottish fisherman and their new rights?

Sorry, thats the best I can do, have a go at Boris if not good enough, as don't forget that the official UK government position, was Remain.

BTW I see the anti Tory 'flanking' movement between our coalition in waiting usual suspects is entering a knew phase for the general election Mr Corbyn 'can feel in his water', - TODAY telling the business community looking for some stability - that he who will use them to fund his big State vision, is "the government in waiting" around the corner.

I don't know what language this sentence started life in, but Google Translate has badly let it down.

I'm guessing you just wanted to get 'Google' in, as it quite clear from her previous statements that Ms Sturgeon would only ever support a Labour leader whose sole qualification, is having a pulse - and having both just come back from a plotting away day in Brussels with that nice Mr Barnier - i doubt if anyone would have the front to say Corbyn had not run by Sturgeon his current anti Tory electioneering, on her turf.

So nothing positive. Just ideas on what you perceived was/is wrong.

See your version of 'myth' seems to be debatable www.theguardian.com/business/live/2017/jul/24/imf-cuts-uk-growth-forecasts-eurozone-pmi-manufacturing-services-euro-live

God.

1. The government will switch to Labour.

Labour will lead aspects of Brexit. 2.There is additional strength in the UKs position if both major parties, and therefore the whole country, are in negotiations. If it's a 'one party' negotiation, then it's destabilised as soon as power shift, which it will -, we are in a two party 'Pepsi or coke democracy. When we are tired enough of tory, we will go labour. '

Corbyn has promised, as the leaders of the Labour parliamentary party promised in 2010, to 'oppose everything' the Conservative Party tries to put through parliament, as they are still telling businesses and EU politicians, they will be in power within months - a means to and end, if you will..

But what is the Labour Party's actual position?

Well despite over 200 Labour MPs voting remain, Mr Corbyn had stated in the Labour Manifesto the Labour Party will both support the peoples will via Brexit, and we will definitely leave the Single market.

After the general election all these other theories were coming forward, Norway this, keeping a bit of that - but last Sunday Mr Corbyn confirmed the UK will be leaving the EU Single Market.

But similar to Mary Poppins and 'when the wind changes direction', who knows what he DIDN'T say, and what his view will be, come August?

Especially as their poster boy Starmer is STILL saying everything should be on the table still.

At least the government knows what we will be out of entering negotiations, the main question is the length of any transitional period, now needed as the EU negotiators are insisting all their conditions e.g. the ECJ superior to our courts in several issues for many years after Brexit, are met in full - so no deal will be possible in 2-years, based on their stalling, which now will affect UK businesses.

For JeffreyNeedsAHobby ....But lets not forget the only way the Eurozone could grow/employ several years after the crash, has been via their central bank pumping in Euro trillions of cheap money and negative interest loans into the economy for the past 3-years - so hardly a sign the Eurozone with over twice our unemployment and businesses not wanting to hire permanent workers, is FINALLY able to grow without a massive stimulus. Why?