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London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

958 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 17:14

RIP Flowers

Five victims officially named Flowers
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more Flowers
Many displaced and struggling Flowers

To all those affected and all those helping Flowers

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

OP posts:
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12
Bloomed · 21/06/2017 01:17

Thanks Helena. Hope it gets picked up.

Bloomed · 21/06/2017 03:06

Disgracefully slow response.

stopfuckingshoutingatme · 21/06/2017 06:49

Rhythm thanks .
The reason I ask is as I see it the council need to focus on re homing people as close as possible . And providing support to have them move in the world (ID , bank , legal etc) . But they will find legal reasons to drag their feet on other issues and they are going to be short staffed

So the money donated must be used for more personal sundries such as food , intermin salary - so people have their basics covered until the wheel kicks in

I want to donate more but at the moment I am wanting see it being used

Can't believe it's 1 week and the number is still 79

That's no criticism of anyone by the way but truly appalling to comprehend

RhythmAndStealth · 21/06/2017 07:28

stopfuckingwithme those people need to be rehomed really, really quickly, close to home. And supported properly as well. What if someone's on a zero hour contract or in the 'gig' economy and doesn't get paid when they don't work. And when they do get back to work they find suddenly their hours go right down as they've taken time off. I'm sure there are a lot of employers/managers who wouldn't dream of doing that, but not everyone.

The other thing I really see there being a big need for is counseling/therapy. The survivors are going to be so badly traumatised. They will need psychological support, now and in the future, possibly long-term.

I saw on TV that there were lots and lots of counsellors/therapists down on the estate at the weekend, just off their own bat doing pro-bono work. Going round and listening/talking to people, trying to be early intervention support.

One lady was interviewed and said that she and lot of her fellow therapists who were down there wanted to reassure people that they would continue to be around, that they were in it for the long haul, not just last weekend. I think that is great, and all those people helping for free are brilliant. An absolute credit to their profession.

And I also think that really, proper counseling/support for trauma should be provided by the NHS, especially in this case. But realistically that isn't going to happen.

So I think, especially long-term, one of the charitable needs is going to be counseling & therapy for trauma. Because that disaster, and being ignored before the event and neglected after by the authorities, all the disruption and disconnection afterwards is such a recipe for PTSD. Especially for any children involved, or people who have already fled war zones or suffered abuse.

I also read that one of the cuts to the London Fire Service was to reduce the number of counsellors from 13 to two. How are two counsellors going to handle talking to what, 250 firefighters? This was such a horrendous incident, so many of the firefighters must be distressed by it, never mind how long their career has been or what they have had to deal with before. So I am concerned that they get the proper support too.

Sorry, to go on at such length about that. I have personal experience of what PTSD can do to people, especially children and I just can't bear to think what might happen if these people don't get the right care as well as their other needs met.

So in the longer-term, I think I try to find a local charity that provides counseling/therapy to the victims long-term. In the meantime, I'm thinking the Firefighter's charity, as I know they provide psychological help for firefighters.

For all those affected and all those helping Flowers

OP posts:
BurnTheBlackSuit · 21/06/2017 07:36

One week on Flowers

This tragedy has affected me very very deeply. Not solely because of the huge number of people who died, but also because it was completely preventable.

I am not sure donating more money at this point is the best response. I also don't live in London and don't think that more people on the ground or more stuff is what is needed now.

But I want to do something. For the residents and families affected. For the fire service, police and call handlers who were involved. For HA tenants across the country who aren't listened too. For all those whose buildings (homes and schools etc) have been wrapped in flammable plastic. I want a fair country which treats the most disadvantaged as well as the richest.

But I am at a loss to know where to start or what to do.

Saucery · 21/06/2017 07:45

Take elements and campaign for them? So fire safety in social housing - what is my/your MP doing about it? Counselling services for emergency services - what is in the area and can it be improved?
Housing associations and how they treat their clients?
I feel the same as you, BurnTheBlackSuit. I knew there were failings in the system but not quite how bad it was. My eyes have been opened by this.

MonkeylovesRobot · 21/06/2017 07:48

Relief Team (neutral now, I think) have come out and said that statements about people being rehomed hundreds of miles away are incorrect, as are statements that people have been forced to become homeless if they don't take properties, and a few other things are not happening too.

"Counselling services for emergency services - what is in the area and can it be improved?"

They have access to the best trauma services in the UK at the Tavistock if they live close by. Maudsley for South London is also very good.

barrygibbscheekbones · 21/06/2017 07:54

Grenfell Tower renovations were never signed off by the council;

www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/kensington-chelsea/grenfell-tower-refurbishment-was-not-approved/

mrsglowglow · 21/06/2017 07:58

Yes it feels like a system is finally in place for the local people to get the support. I believe the home office will be there to assist with new documentation today and support to get new phones/computers etc.

On another note I am feeling uneasy about what today will bring to London. So many angry people on the hottest day of the year. I agree to protesting but I feel the 'day of rage' call to take to the streets is not giving the message that peaceful protest is needed. People are being encouraged to take the day off school/work to attend and I'm worried the police are stretched in every way. Please let it be safe and peaceful.

FerretChewToy · 21/06/2017 08:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sunnyhills · 21/06/2017 09:11

I really feel for staff/people administering the issue of emergency money ,paperwork etc . Not to mention rehousing .

Must be so hard dealing with distressed people and I wonder what training council staff have .And inevitably there must be some chancers who were not residents .

And many who were resident in the tower but who lack proof of residency .

Beyond a nightmare for all those caught up in this .

sunnyhills · 21/06/2017 09:13

And those poor firefighters who were on site dealing with the fridge fire and then saw the flames shooting up the side of the building .

What must they have felt ?

Sillysausage123 · 21/06/2017 09:13

Why is Katie Hopkins blaming Sadie Khan when he has only been mayor for a year?
Not surprising she hasn't criticised Teresa May or the other people who sat on the reports or the MPs who voted against making homes habitable.

Sillysausage123 · 21/06/2017 09:14

Sadiq

CloudNinetyNine · 21/06/2017 09:16

What I don't understand is people saying the residents of the tower and affected surrounding homes should be rehoused nearby and quickly. Yes, this would be appropriate but where are all these extra empty homes? You (currently) can't force private owners to rent out their empty homes. And if the council had extra housing available surely it would have already been used and therefore not empty.
We have two homes near us that are emergency housing and there must be others scattered about but I don't know how any council could suddenly rustle up housing for a tower block worth of families.
As if escaping from a fire and losing friends/family/home wasn't bad enough, these people now have months of uncertainty ahead.
DH works in the building industry - talk around his office is that people will go to jail for this - corporate manslaughter. I'm not so sure. I predict everybody will have done their jobs within guidelines/regulations and no one person will be to blame - but 'lessons will be learnt', so that's ok!

AssignedMentalAtBirth · 21/06/2017 09:17

I have read that there are some not coming forward because they were not legal immigrants or were in the process of applying. Shouldn't there be an amnesty for those people. Political hot potato I know

sunnyhills · 21/06/2017 09:33

Assigned and Cloud I agree about lack of housing and an amensty .

I hope people don't go to jail .I would worry that there are so many factors, a person doing what used to take 2 people , human errors ,vague building regs ,MPs who ignored recommendations following the Lakanaal fire etc that how can we be sure that everyone who is culpable is jailed ?And not some wretched fall guy .

Can you imagine how genuine workers involved in the refurb and those responsible for building approval, site inspections and regulation must be feeling right now ? You can bet that the huge majority will be people like you and me .They won't be evil no gooders purely in it to make money but ordinary employees working in a very far from perfect structure .

Batteriesallgone · 21/06/2017 09:35

Thanks for the charity links. We haven't yet made a donation as were suspicious of the fundraising things we've seen. Donating to the Red Cross feels much more reliable.

MonkeylovesRobot · 21/06/2017 09:37

BurnTheBlackSuit

I've brought a white leather bracelet; it's to remind me that I have the strength and courage to stand up and recognise inequality when it is happening, speak out about it and suggest constructive ways to end it going forwards.

I did something similar with witnessing people drink driving a few years back and having the bracelet served as a reminder that I had made a promise to myself I would do it, and the reminder of the reasons why I was doing it gave me the confidence to speak out about it and challenge it when it was about to happen.

Just one idea.

MonkeylovesRobot · 21/06/2017 09:39

@AssignedMentalAtBirth Please go and read the statement released by the Relief Team on the allegations that people were not coming forwards and lawyers were having to talk to the Teams on their behalf. The GRT claim they are unaware of any instances of this happening.

Batteriesallgone · 21/06/2017 09:41

I don't think in any disaster or charity effort it's common to think 'oh too much money has been donated' especially after less than a week.

Looking after and rehoming people affected is going to drag on and on and on and on. The more money that can be raised the better IMO.

Albadross · 21/06/2017 10:14

I'm on World Update - after 10.30 on BBC World Service - talking about Grenfell again today

CaveMum · 21/06/2017 10:25

The charity single (Bridge Over Troubled Water) has been released this morning. All proceeds will go to the Grenfell Fund and the Exchequer has confirmed it will give back all VAT paid on purchases of the single.

Hairydilemma · 21/06/2017 10:49

Just heard you Albadross - you came across really well.

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