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London Fire: Grenfell Tower thread five

958 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 20/06/2017 17:14

RIP Flowers

Five victims officially named Flowers
At least 79 victims expected, possibly more Flowers
Many displaced and struggling Flowers

To all those affected and all those helping Flowers

Thread four
Thread three
Thread three contains links to threads one and two.

OP posts:
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12
mrsglowglow · 26/06/2017 21:32

Red, we heard about the auction and cried. This young girl had such a promising future and to be killed in this way is so wrong. You can feel the heartbreak of her teacher. Such a lovely way to honour his student.

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2017 22:56

WATCH THIS:

BBC Newsnight‏ @BBCNewsnight
Our Policy Editor @xtophercook reveals how bodies tasked with enforcing building regulations are helping contractors to get around the rules
twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/879456057226964993

www.theguardian.com/society/2017/jun/26/shelter-under-microscope-over-partnerships-with-construction-industry?CMP=share_btn_tw
Shelter under microscope over partnerships with construction industry
Homelessness charity received £15,000 in donations from company that supplied cladding for Grenfell Tower

BBC Newsnight‏ @BBCNewsnight
"I am being honest about what people are saying to me" @DavidLammy on the number of people thought to be killed in #GrenfellTower fire
twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/879457189177442304

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2017 23:10

Paul Brand @ Paulbranditv
Tonight I'm told:

  1. Failed cladding tested against same regs as before, so how did it ever pass?
  2. Ministers were told regs were all good.
HelenaDove · 26/06/2017 23:10

I just saw that interview. Lammy made some good points particularly about tracing mobile phone calls made from Grenfell Tower. He pointed out that they managed it straight after the 2011 riots.

There have been claims that Shelter has been more reluctant to help social housing tenants with problems and that they seem to focus more on private tenants.

HelenaDove · 26/06/2017 23:12

I think there is going to be an attempt to blame it all on the regs here.

RedToothBrush · 26/06/2017 23:45

www.itv.com/news/2017-06-26/grenfell-tower-fire-ministers-were-told-fire-regulations-were-fit-for-purpose/
Grenfell Tower Fire: Ministers 'were told fire regulations were fit for purpose'

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 00:17

Having done a short perusal of the fb pages of LBC and the Evening Standard it would appear that its not ok to ask the questions Lammy is asking but it is ok to speculate about whether the Grenfell residents were subletting or had pulled off the fire doors so they could sell them! Disgusting allegation. Yes you read that right. It reminds me of the completely untrue and disgusting allegations against the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough except its not coming from the police its coming from the bottom feeders of social media.

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 00:51

"It has emerged that the company responsible for managing Grenfell Tower had been reviewing fire safety procedures prior to the devastating blaze this week, in particular ‘vulnerable’ residents that use aids such as mobility scooters.

17 people are known to have died so far but officials expect the death toll to rise significantly as emergency services gain access to the tower.

Part of the safety review for the 24-storey tower block in London included the “issue of storage and charging of mobility scooters within communal areas”. There is no evidence to suggest the storage or charging facilities were responsible for starting the fire"

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 00:53

The cheek of them. After ignoring ACTUAL fire safety concerns they focused on mobility scooters.

cathf · 27/06/2017 11:56

Helena, are there any circumstances whatsoever that you might consider that the whole world is not out to get housing association tenants?
Yes, they have to put up with some shit, but so do we all from time to time.
You seem to think that every single problem - no matter how trivial - is some attempt to marginalise HA tenants.
Some of the complaints on the various blogs/fb pages etc you have linked to are frankly laughable. Forced to live on sandwiches? How do you think people living in their own homes cope when renovations are taking place?? I lived for four weeks without a cooker as it was only way I could afford to have a new kitchen fitted.

mrsglowglow · 27/06/2017 12:19

Cath, it's the attitude and actions towards HA tenants that is the problem. You get to choose your builder and decide on when it starts. Yes it's inconvenient but it's your choice and decision. HA tenants get no say whatever as to when work is done and who does it. The people in the tower blocks have not caused this but they are the ones suffering. And when they do complain (justifiably) often they are met with this attitude of well you're not paying do shut up. Hood on you Helena for highlighting the plight of HA tenants.

The huge mess of our building industry will also affect private flat owners and private tenants. At the moment these buildings are not included in the investigations but I imagine they and their insurers will be Kern to check the safety of their buildings. If the council owned buildings were being signed off as safe when they obviously were not then there must be private buildings also affected.

mrsglowglow · 27/06/2017 12:21

Sorry I meant to say Good on you Helena!!

cathf · 27/06/2017 12:38

Mrsglow, I can see the point you are making and I agree a lot of what has been said on here. I have certainly never said ha have to put up with things because they are not paying for them.
However, I do believe that a lot of the complaints in some of the links are a bit pathetic, to be honest. No cooker? No light? It's what happens when work is beibg done to your home and you (tenant or owner) just have to put up with it surely?

Batteriesallgone · 27/06/2017 12:54

A 73 year old was left without a cooker AND heating AND hot water. For weeks. There's no way a private residence hiring their own builder would put up with that. You'd have an agreed schedule so the cooker was sorted separately to the boiler for a start, and likely it would only be a few days they would both be out of order if it has to overlap. Plus he's 73. How many 73 year olds do you know who undergo a total kitchen renovation? They don't. My PILs bought my GPILs a new cooker and six months later got their boiler replaced. The whole kitchen needs doing really but the GPIL can't face the disruption.

Another guy was left without natural light in his flat for MONTHS. We had the facade of our house renovated and were without natural light at the front for two weeks because of the nature of the work. It was gloomy but they were actively working, they didn't just park a cradle outside and fuck off.

Something that is liveable for a week or two quickly turns into unbearable if it goes on for months, overlaps with other work, or the householder is vulnerable (old, disabled, etc). To suggest otherwise shows a lack of empathy apart from anything else.

HandbagKrabby · 27/06/2017 13:30

There's a massive difference in slumming it in a caravan with a camping stove because you're building your very own Grand Design and being forced to live in a shithole at someone else's convenience with no say in the matter.

cathf · 27/06/2017 14:01

Grand Design? Confused
I was talking about a basic kitchen refit!

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 27/06/2017 14:22

But the basic kitchen refits seem to be allowed to take as long as a Grand Design, when it's only council tenants who are inconvenienced.

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 14:30

Grenfell Tower survivors demand say in public inquiry.

Residents have written to Theresa May asking to be consulted on terms and scope of investigation and choice of chair but No 10 has REJECTED the request.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/27/grenfell-tower-fire-survivors-demand-say-in-public-inquiry

Batteriesallgone · 27/06/2017 14:46

Also, if you plan your own work, you can plan for spending more on food, takeaways, etc.

Plus Cath I bet you could afford to buy something like a George Foreman grill, or an electric wok. I know we did when we had our kitchen done.

If you are low on funds so you can't afford takeaways or interim kitchen appliances, a kitchen refit becomes a much more unpleasant experience. Especially if you are a pensioner!!

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 14:50

salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=2880

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 14:54

Heres another one of their "laughable" complaints cathf Link to full article is above.

"Edward Murray, of Whitebeam Court in Pendleton, was recovering from two heart attacks and had been told to go for walks as part of his rehabilitation. Last Thursday, he was on his way out of the block but the front door had scaffolding and a barrier around it, so he used the back entrance...

"As I walked out into the car park I felt something on my face that started burning" Edward recalls "There was a man there spraying the wall and I asked him what he was using and he said Acid'...My face carried on burning and he said It's probably because your skin's not used to acid', pointed to some water in a tub and told me to rinse my face. It was a large tub and I couldn't pick it up as I'd just had my heart attack, so I rubbed a bit on my face but it carried on burning."

Edward went back to his flat and repeatedly washed his face but the burning continued, so he decided to go to the Pendleton Together office at Brotherton House, opposite Salford Precinct, where workers from Keepmoat, the on-site contractor, and Pendleton Together, the project management company, came out to see him and were less than helpful...

"They took me in a room and said All we can do is apologise'" he adds "No offer of first aid, no Do you want us to take you to hospital? Or do you want us to ring you an ambulance or a taxi?' Nothing. They asked for my email address and said they would email me over instructions with what to do for the burning. With that I left Pendleton Together's office and ran back to my flat, which isn't good after a heart attack."

The burning persisted so Edward got himself a taxi and went to Salford Royal Hospital, where staff eventually transferred him to Wythenshawe Hospital's special burns unit for treatment. He was kept in overnight, treated for burns from hydrochloric acid, and discharged the following day with medication and instructions to keep clear of the sun to avoid further damage to his skin.

As he was originally in a hurry to get to hospital, Edward had gone out wearing only a t-shirt and with £10 in his pocket, £5 of which he had already spent on a taxi to Salford Royal...

"I could only afford a £4 bus to Manchester and then had to walk to Salford in the heavy rain" he recalls "I got home and from then until now I'm still wondering if I'm going to have another heart attack because of the stress. Pendleton Together has not even contacted me to see how I am or to see if I need anything. They've never been near. I'm disgusted."

While Keepmoat staff have been to see Edward, the company's health and safety procedures are sure to come in for major scrutiny. An official note given to Edward states that the worker who was spraying the wall should have had a canister containing a solution to dilute the acid, to be applied within sixty seconds. This certainly didn't happen. Neither were there any notices warning tenants that dangerous solutions were being sprayed on walls next to an entrance."

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 14:57

Having lost ten stone there is no way i would be eating takeaways.

HelenaDove · 27/06/2017 15:03

www.salfordstar.com/article.asp?id=3963

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