CROWDS going into KENSINGTON TOWN HALL ..... BBC NEWS now

[RTKangaMummy]

They were outside but now the crowds have all entered the civic centre town hall

I am not surprised that this is happening

Architect and fire expert Sam Webb said: "We are still wrapping post-war high-rise buildings in highly flammable materials and leaving them without sprinkler systems installed, then being surprised when they burn down.

"I really don't think the building industry understands how fire behaves in buildings and how dangerous it can be. The government's mania for deregulation means our current safety standards just aren't good enough."

This is not just Mnetters surmising : it is based on reading and research
Also:
Some of these issues were raised in a report following a fatal fire at a tower block in 2009 in Camberwell, in which six people were killed.

Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government Sajid Javid said his predecessor in the role had accepted the report's recommendations and put them into action.

"The coroner did not recommend new planning regulations. The coroner recommended a change in the guidance. There is a lot of information out there and it is right that it is independently looked at by a judge-led inquiry," Mr Javid said.

So, now what we will get is a stable door reaction sadly. Like it took Hillsborough for all seater stadiums

And people like you Lying who trust the professionals to always get it right are even more freighting.

People like you who sit back in their cosy lives and think the rest of us should STFU scare the shit out of me.

Agree with Highalert. Lots of cunty remarks and judgements going on here I see with no ability to sit back and think "what if it were me?"

Highalert, do you ever actually comprehend what's going on in a thread? What posters are actually saying?

I refer to 'uneducated' public as those not qualified in whatever profession is being questioned. I am including myself in that. I'm not qualified in building design, safety controls, fire safety installations. Are you?

As if you're gonna sit back with your missing loved ones and every possession destroyed and go alright I'll just wait for the proper people to come along and sort it.

Righty-ho then Highalert, I'll leave you to your antagonism and thigh-rubbing safe behind your screen and away from it all. I'm done trying to reason with you.

Me neither lying but I keep finding expert comments from a range of media sources, all saying the cladding is not fire retardant, is outlawed on tall buildings in a range of countries and should be accompanied by sprinklers if fitted.

You seem to think these 'professionals' here couldn't have known all this...but they did.

The architect above says many builders simply do not understand how fire spreads. That is definitely frightening.

Really? People really don't think like this?

Yeah whatever, Lying. I'm done reading your pompous shite anyway.

That wasn't to you, Piggy, I agree with you. See my earlier comment about balance of cost -v- quality. Some risks just never should be taken and this was one of them. Evidently. So sad that it's had such catastrophic consequences.

Architect and fire expert Sam Webb said: "We are still wrapping post-war high-rise buildings in highly flammable materials and leaving them without sprinkler systems installed, then being surprised when they burn down.

"I really don't think the building industry understands how fire behaves in buildings and how dangerous it can be. The government's mania for deregulation means our current safety standards just aren't good enough."

Absolutely. It is pretty obvious to even a layman that flammable material was on the outside of that building, and we know that there were no sprinkler systems, and a crap alarm system that couldn't be heard in every flat.

That is bad, it is outrageous. I don't need an expert to tell me that. Although experts have come out and said it - so I need be in no doubt at all.

Lives were lost that shouldn't have been - so damn right people are angry. There are people living in tower blocks, with this cladding around them, right now. And possibly also with no sprinklers, and possibly with the 'stay put' advice that they now don't know whether to trust or not. They're sleeping in those tower blocks with their children tonight.

Must be nice to still have a kitchen to wash up in.

Katie Hopkins wrote a perfectly sensible and human piece earlier this week saying people were right to be angry and she was angry too. I was flabbergasted. I guess though, she's a mother as well as a rent a gob.

piggy, the cladding may well have met the requirements. I find it highly unlikely that a cladding system has been approved without meeting the required British Standards under standard test conditions.

The question about the cladding is likely to be three fold:

• did it pass the standard test
• was it installed in the building to the same standard as it was for the test
• are the standard tests good enough

The answer to at least one if those questions is likely to be no.

I suspect the answer to the third question will be no. Given the government commissions regular reports about fires which could impact building regulations - was this problem missed in those reports, or was it recognised by the experts and dismissed?

Posters advocating protest does not equal posters advocating riots. HTH

Not dismissed Emily - findings became 'guidelines' rather than laws or policies, in order not to aggravate businesses with red tape, it seems.

see above , Emily ; many experts have lobbied for years to complain that safety standards are not rigorous enough. Ignored by successive ministers.

No longwinded public enquiry please, treat this as manslaughter off to the police and courts. Now

It doesn't work like that and nor should it. However great the fully justified outrage and whatever the pressure for somebody - anybody - to be strung up now, a lot of investigation is needed before anyone can be charged in a UK court

FWIW nobody knows yet whether the cladding really was the cause of the awful blaze. Certainly it looks possible, but we don't actually know ... and speculation on social media doesn't constitute evidence

Totally agree that protest =/= advocating riots.

Protest is clearly what is needed - and LOUD protest at that - but hopefully peaceful.

Anyone who read the blogs by the Grenfell Action Group knows that they have lobbying for better fire safety in this building for years. Nobody took a blind bit of fucking notice. So, yeah, I understand them going to the Town Hall. I understand their anger. They've been ignored for so long - and now 70+ lives have been lost.

I keep seeing one of the men on telly saying he is holding on to his anger because it keeps him standing. Otherwise he sais he would lie down and he just wouldn't know how he would be able to ever get up again.

Anger is a channel for people to feel they have purpose and they can do something.

Agree with Highalert. Lots of cunty remarks and judgements going on here I see with no ability to sit back and think "what if it were me?"

Agreed. Some truly ignorant and heartless people.

piggy, I totally agree about safety standards. But we have had enough of experts, right?

goodness, yes. We've yet to hear Gove's thought...

I do not care that it is a Daily Mail link.

Look at the faces of these people. Fucking heartbreaking. People need to be angry and not be quiet about it.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4610428/Artist-named-fourth-victim-Grenfell-Tower-blaze.html

Fluffy- im heartbroken for those poor families. This is beyond any words.

The links online to videos of the building on fire is just too much to cope with. I cannot shake from my head the sheer terror that those poor families would have experienced. To know that you would not get out and would die