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Grenfell Tower

999 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 14/06/2017 04:49

Watching the news just now and I can't believe my eyes. It looks absolutely horrific.

I want to think everyone got out safe, but sadly I just can't.

Some of the news reports are about alleged poor safety standards and dangerous living conditions. If that's true it just beggars belief.

OP posts:
CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 15:26

Can I just ask something; I feel that every tower block with that damn cladding on should be condemned today - is this possible?

BorisTrumpsHair · 14/06/2017 15:26

Even if some of the flats are now in private ownership, perhaps let out privately they will be leaseholds and the overall management of the building will be the same for all tennants/owners, group buildings insurance, same lot maintaining, refurbishing it (or not) etc

BorisTrumpsHair · 14/06/2017 15:28

Coral I agree. How are people living in similar tower blocks meant to feels safe in their homes or sleep now?

FreakOfNurture · 14/06/2017 15:28

I'd ignore changednomnom. Strange little agenda there.

Changedenomnom · 14/06/2017 15:28

"Today 15:14 MissEliza

Just spoke to a relative who worked in the housing department for a local authority. He said there's supposed to be some kind of fire 'stop' between the cladding and the building. He's speculating that this was missing. Of course it's all speculation at the moment.
Just praying that all the missing people are found safe and well."

I'm sorry but a person who once worked in a housing department watching this on TV wouldnt have a clue why this happened and all the googling in the world doesn't mean you do either.

I mean who on earth would be so arrogant as to think they know why the block went up? When they know nothing about it?

ZaphodBeeblerox · 14/06/2017 15:29

Sorry haven't RTFT. Is there a way to donate money that would go towards long-term rehousing etc? I think there's an Evening Standard appeal, but wasn't sure how it works.

Catminion · 14/06/2017 15:30

thekandcfoundation.com/donate/

CondensedMilkSarnies · 14/06/2017 15:30

I'm not surprised to hear about the PFI hospitals. I knew an electrician chap that worked on a PFI and he was always saying that the planning was inadequate and they were having to 'amend' some of the fittings .

Changedenomnom · 14/06/2017 15:31

Today 15:28 FreakOfNurture

I'd ignore changednomnom. Strange little agenda there.

What does that mean, exactly?

CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 15:32

@ZaphodBeeblerox I am unsure, some people have donated to the Kensington and Chelsea fund but I have yet to donate anywhere as I can't see how the money will be split out. I think I will donate to the burns unit directly if I can. I realise this doesn't help long-term housing issues, but I do know that recovering from burns is a very long, complex and expensive process and even at Chelsea many sectors of this rely on donations.

Dandandandandandandan · 14/06/2017 15:32

It's so horribly sad. We live nearby, so DP has been down there today with boxes of nappies and wipes and baby formula - nothing much bothers him, but I can tell that what he's seen today has really upset him. I saw that one of the centres is asking for food they can heat up easily for the families, so if they still need it tonight, i'm going to fill the car boot with pizzas and bottles of water etc. I think there are a few crowd funders online as well.

DP did say that the centres are full of donations and people bringing donations, which is the ray of light in the darkness.

Poor, poor people, it's everyone's worst nightmare :(

MissEliza · 14/06/2017 15:32

There's no need to be so fucking rude Changed. I clearly said it was just SPECULATION not a bloody expert opinion. In fact any discussion about the possible causes today is just that.

LBOCS2 · 14/06/2017 15:33

If some were privately owned then it's not up to the council to rehome which will take some of the pressure off local boroughs - the insurance will cover temporary accommodation, whilst they continue paying the mortgage on the flat in the block. If it was rented the usual procedure is to void the AST so that the renters can go and find an alternative home and loss of rent is covered for the landlord.

I've been thinking about the risers. Basically, they're open pipes designed for high pressure water transport within a building - the firefighters attach hoses at the top and bottom and it contains the water. If they couldn't get close enough to the riser intake at the bottom of the building, or up the stairs to access the riser internally, then they wouldn't be able to use it at all - which seems feasible given the speed at which the fire spread.

Changedenomnom · 14/06/2017 15:33

Donations are amazing but there are people whose responsibility it is to refurb the flats and rehouse the residents- it won't come from donations. Please don't feel you need to donate because they might be homeless otherwise

FreakOfNurture · 14/06/2017 15:34

Coral, I think that's a good idea, to donate to the burns unit. I know they should be properly funded anyway, but I still think it's a good thing to do.

RhythmAndStealth · 14/06/2017 15:34

Change That's funny, given some of your posts are blatant examples of attempted blame deflection.

I think your concern for former colleagues "doing a good job" is somewhat misplaced when there are residents who are dead, critically injured, grieving, homeless and dispossessed.

When a parent had to chose to throw their child from the window of a burning building.

It is very likely that someone, somewhere, did not do a good job. Maybe many peop,e did not do a good job. It's as irresponsible to assert that people are blameless before an inquiry as it is to apportion blame before the inquiry.

At the moment, people's main concern is for those people, and for the emergency services who risk their lives in such situations. And rightly so.

This incident gives sufficient cause for people to wonder whether good work has indeed been done all round, and there will be inquiries into that. Again, rightly so.

In a situations such as this it is absolutely legitimate for people to put challenging questions to those with professional responsibilities.

And it is very, very distasteful to dismiss people's concerns about being adequately rehoused, especially when other posters have pointed out that in their direct experience in similar situations, things do not always proceed as they should. It is frankly sickening to be anything but sympathetic in this situation. These people are traumatized and scared at the moment. With indisputably good reason. I cannot imagine their fear and anguish at the moment. Of course they are going to be scared that they will be let down, again. Have some sympathy and compassion.

Flowers for everyone affected
Flowers for everyone who has ever gone through something similar Flowers for everyone who is scared today, and tonight
Flowers for the firefighters who risk their lives
Flowers for the ambulance crews, policemen and NHS personnel at the frontline
Flowers for the charities, community organizations, mosques and churches helping people as best they can

OP posts:
CondensedMilkSarnies · 14/06/2017 15:36

Can I just ask something; I feel that every tower block with that damn cladding on should be condemned today - is this possible?

I think the same but it won't happen - where would all the residents go ?
And they need to confirm the cladding actually caused the fire .

RhythmAndStealth · 14/06/2017 15:36

And now you're telling people not to donate to help the victims Changed.

Outrageous.

OP posts:
FreakOfNurture · 14/06/2017 15:37

OP, well said.

Ignore the KCTMO apologists. But screen shot it first for Twitter!

CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 15:38

FreakOfNurture It's been a while since I was treated there, but when I was the NHS part was funded, so the inpatient and surgery part (although some of the equipment was donated through fundraising), but the psychological and most of the therapy parts were through donations. I think even some of the material for the pressure garments were from donations. Like I said, a while ago now though so it may have changed, however, it's a really long road to recover from burns.

Judashascomeintosomemoney · 14/06/2017 15:39

coral there was a guy on Radio 4 earlier, ex fire chief, that speculates there are 10s of thousands of this kind of cladded building in the UK now

CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 15:39

Condensed I thought as much - that it would difficult to home everyone. I feel awful for everyone who has to stay with that stuff on their exteriors tonight. I hope they can at least ascertain this part quite quickly in the investigation.

FreakOfNurture · 14/06/2017 15:40

Coral I think all NHS services fund raise to some extent these days Flowers

Changedenomnom · 14/06/2017 15:43

Of course I haven't told people not to donate. Don't twist my words.

What would be awful is if people felt they needed to donate to stop residents being homeless.

I'm not deflecting any blame. It's strange that so many people on here are so desperate to assign blame, despite the fact none of us know anything about the cause of this.

TrojanWhore · 14/06/2017 15:44

Well it does look from that page linked above that 'cuts' werenMt the issue - the regeneration had a total budget of £57m with over £8m on that block.

So the question might be rather 'what went wrong in this project?'

Cladding is certainly something covered by EU regulation - it's put on as a way to meet requirements of thermal standards. Not to make a buidling prettier, though if course people do want their built environments to look pleasant or at least kempt.