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Grenfell Tower

999 replies

RhythmAndStealth · 14/06/2017 04:49

Watching the news just now and I can't believe my eyes. It looks absolutely horrific.

I want to think everyone got out safe, but sadly I just can't.

Some of the news reports are about alleged poor safety standards and dangerous living conditions. If that's true it just beggars belief.

OP posts:
CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 10:40

FreakOfNurture No, it shouldn't. But we don't actually know the cause of the spread.

The building had just had over 8 million pounds spent on it; it's not a lack of money that is the cause. That 8 million pounds may have turned the building into a death trap.

The other main issue is the failure of the fire safety features - again, for reasons we do not yet know.

Whatthefoxgoingon · 14/06/2017 10:41

CFSKate There were reports that it was Muslim's who were awake breaking / starting their fast who raised the alarm first.

So lucky they were up and could raise the alarm quickly.

CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 10:41

NomDePlumeReloaded Yep. This is another huge issue - there should be at least two escape routes.

Soubriquet · 14/06/2017 10:42

I can't believe the fire is still going so strongly

Why build these bloody tall buildings with no way to put out fires that high up?!

It's completely irresponsible

CondensedMilkSarnies · 14/06/2017 10:42

I know these are old buildings but surely there should be fire retardant ceilings and floors so that any fire is contained.

LBOCS2 · 14/06/2017 10:42

Modern buildings are built with partitioning - so if a fire does break out, it's contained. You have concrete floors, risers with fire proof floors and sealant, and fire doors everywhere; along corridors, to flats and to risers. Lift shafts are concrete lined, etc. Plus of course you have fire detection systems.

The problem when a lot of older blocks is that these systems are compromised by people living there - cutting through fire partitions, riser cupboards being left unlocked (or used for personal storage), corridors with fire doors propped open, doors replaced with a standard front door (or worse, internal door), so the protection it offers is poor at best. A stay put policy is definitely the best policy where these things are in place but if they're not, then it just means that people are waiting to die and it allows the fire to spread - particularly if there are personal items left in corridors which should be 'sterile areas'; I.e nothing in them to burn.

And retrofitting a bells and whistles fire detection system is prohibitively expensive. Like, hundreds of thousands of pounds expensive. Which is fine if you have the money but councils often don't, and private residents often won't pay for it, they make the decision not to.

Fire detectors should be tested weekly, with risers and associated equipment tested 6 monthly. I would be surprised if this has happened, given the issues they've had with controlling the fire.

I was a freehold property manager before I became a SAHM and the idea of a fire terrified me - both on a professional and a personal level. I'm extremely cautious about having doors shut and working smoke detectors at home. My heart goes out to everyone there, it's horrendous. I only hope that it isn't as bad as it seems.

squoosh · 14/06/2017 10:42

Horrifying.

The residents' predictions about what it would take for people to sit up and take notice is absolutely chilling in its prescience. Will companies like KCTMO now use this event to sell off 'cheaper' housing stock to developers rather than implement proper H&S upgrades?

CoralDreamscapes · 14/06/2017 10:44

Soubriquet They did have a system in place to put out the fires on the upper floors - the fire staff could not access / use the risers (earlier report). We don't know yet know why this was.

Nananap · 14/06/2017 10:44

ifnot your right (again), there was a lad on victoria derbyshire a minute ago saying about the rich mans flats next door. I drive past them often for work, and he's right theres been massive development of "fancy" flats in the area.

dangermouseisace · 14/06/2017 10:45

It's common for the elderly/disabled to be housed in high rises in cities as they are able to move around a flat more easily than a house. I questioned this when I worked for a local authority as I had clients who could not leave independently from local authority blocks, in case of fire and I was worried.

I was advised the blocks I asked about had all been properly risk assessed and loads of work had been done to ensure fire safety. There were fire doors everywhere, work done to reduce risk of fire spreading between floors etc, sprinkler systems installed and so on. Because of all that tenants were meant to be safe in flats for at least 2 hours until fire brigade could rescue them.

It doesn't sound like the same precautions were taken in this block, sadly.

CondensedMilkSarnies · 14/06/2017 10:45

LBOCS2 I guess the logistics of putting in fire retardant partitions make it impossible.

thereallochnessmonster · 14/06/2017 10:45

people have died needlessly as a result of the intense austerity inflicted on the poorest in society.

The flat that a pp linked to did not shrieklf of 'intense austerity;' - it was fucking gorgeous and ented for £1700 per month. Not whyat I expected to see in a tower block at all.

I am sure we will soon have some insincere claptrap being spouted by TM soon.

This is not the time for political point scoring. This could have happened under any shade of govt. If she comments, she's criticised. If she doesn't, she's criticised. (Not a fan of TM - just trying to be fair.)

This is something like the 11th year that Kensington & Chelsea govt has had funding cuts by central govt. It has had to make v hard choices about what to spend its money on. This is the first time in 11 years it has decided to raise council tax.

If the flats did not have adequate fire prevention measures in place then the council - and the tenant management organisation - should be taken to court.

K&C council is very keen on prosecuting private landlords who break fire regs and other council rules. I hope thy apply the same rules to themselves.

MakingMerry · 14/06/2017 10:46

There are ways to put out fires that high up Soubriquet it's called a dry riser. It allows fire crews to pump water up into the inside of the building and fight the fire from the inside.

For reasons not yet clear, it is not working. It's either blocked or fire crews can't access it. There appear to be multiple, mutually re-enforcing, failures here which have led to tragedy as is often the case.

Soubriquet · 14/06/2017 10:46

Soubriquet They did have a system in place to put out the fires on the upper floors - the fire staff could not access / use the risers (earlier report). We don't know yet know why this was

Ah thank you. I've been out with the dog so just tuned in again

LarrytheCucumber · 14/06/2017 10:47

I suspect the man clowning around behind Victoria Derbyshire is literally off his head.

Albadross · 14/06/2017 10:47

I'm going to try and set up a support group in London for people affected by major incidents like this to provide informal advocacy and emotional support from others who've experienced similar trauma.

After my own experience, I know that after the news cameras leave, you have to fight insurers (if you even have them) who make the process very difficult and it takes years to get back on track even if you're not physically injured. It's hard to talk about it with others who've never been through something that traumatic so it would help to share with people you don't have to explain it to, who just understand. Victim support isn't all that accessible and again doesn't provide the peer support aspect. They're under-resourced and I wasn't able to get to an appointment because of location and timings.

I wrote to the Home Office repeatedly about this after my experience but was fobbed off and now I feel I really need to do something to help others.

If anyone here wants to help with this please pm me, and if you know others who've been involved in a major incident and who might find it helpful please share with them. I tried to set up a facebook group (I have moderator training for this because I also work with a mental health charity) but I need to add at least one person before I can create it annoyingly.

FreakOfNurture · 14/06/2017 10:49

Coral do you get the feeling, though, that this could be an utter clusterfuck of causes? I do have some knowledge in this area, and have watched over six hours of live footage. There are exterior and interior issues - and they'll be replicated at other tower blocks in this borough I suspect.

LBOCS2 · 14/06/2017 10:50

Sometimes it's as difficult as gaining access to flats @CondensedMilkSarnies. I oversaw a smoke detector replacement in a block of 140 flats and it took us over 6 weeks (including weekends) and we still only managed to get into 90% of the flats. People just weren't interested, didn't want to let us in. So if you can't get into the flat, you can't see what compromises have been made to the fire partitioning.

Also, for some reason people love to store really flammable things in riser and electricity cupboards. Paint, white spirits, old rags - all the time.

Soubriquet · 14/06/2017 10:51

I wouldn't want to live in one of those nearby flats right now. I would be petrified going to sleep that night if I was allowed back in.

MakingMerry · 14/06/2017 10:52

I don't expect Thersa May to talk about this at length. She doesn't have to accept blame, I'm sure there will be more than enough of that to go around in the months to come, but just a statement recognising the scale of the human tragedy here. Its almost eleven o'clock. People have been throwing their children to their deaths from a burning building, and I have seen nothing?

As a human being, not a politician, where is she?

Nananap · 14/06/2017 10:52

squoosh did you see the young lad on BBC a few minutes ago? he was saying exactly that, the developers were trying to get the sites.

Orlantina · 14/06/2017 10:53

I hate to imagine how many people don't have contents insurance. They will have lost everything.

londonrach · 14/06/2017 10:54

Awful news to wake up to. Just hoping its not as bad as it looks. If you in london theres a massive appeal out for clothes etc on fb. Ill share the image. No idea if this is a scam but seems ok judging by locations of where stuff will be dropped.

Grenfell Tower
AngelicaSchuylerChurch · 14/06/2017 10:54

There is a man being interviewed on Victoria Derbyshire now who has been evacuated from a nearby building. He has all of his possessions in a shopping trolley because, he explained, he is not insured.

Toddlerteaplease · 14/06/2017 10:57

Apparently the fire brigade have been unable to use the dry risers inside the. Holding. Giving them. I means of getting water to the upper floors.