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Original poster

Brown to double tax on gas guzzlers???? (esp. SN)

74 replies

PeachyClair · 19/03/2007 17:10

Now, before you get on your 4X4 high horses hear me out LOL!

We just bought an old second hand espace with the smallest engine they make, 2L. We have three kids, but because of SN two cannot be seated together- thereby the old configuration wasn't working for us.

The only alternative we would have to the MPV is two cars, which would be ancient polluters as we only ahd £1K to spend anyway (last car was written off by a garage)

The Government seems to want to encourage famillies- tax credits, etc etc etc- but when you have one you get hit!

I have no problem with sports car and luxury vehicles being hit, but we're really worried as they don't make a smaller car engine than the one we have in MPV- and we have no idea how we will finance this. DH ahs to have a car for work, we can't use buses because of the SN- and the nearest supermarket is 5 miles away.

we don't qualify for DLA mobility as the boys can walk, albeit never alone or in a safe manner, and they attack each other in the car.

Just seems that since we had SN kids we've been atatcked on every side- childcare, cars, eduation- for a situation we would never have ever chosen

OP posts:
paulaplumpbottom · 19/03/2007 18:00

I hear you Peachy. I wanted to get a Range Rover but the txes on it worries me. They don't take into account that I ferry My DD and 4 of her friends back and forth to pre-school 3 times a week. That'll be 5 days next year. We are polluting a lot less than if all of their mothers take their children as well. Families and car poolers should not get such heavy penaltys

fairyjay · 19/03/2007 18:06

I drive a 4 x 4, and have to go thru' a ford on my 'school run'. If I had to go the long way round, it would take a lot longer, and I'd be sitting in more traffic, emitting far more fumes.

It's my choice though, and no doubt I'll have to pay the penalty!

TheOriginalXENA · 19/03/2007 18:06

I agree peachy- paula you don't need a range rover to do that

TheOriginalXENA · 19/03/2007 18:11

Fairyjay- We live by a ford (although I don't go through it everyday as I don't work) DH is getting a company car with his new job ( as they have agreed to a people carrier as we have 4 children) Sooo we will be left with DH's discovery and my ford escort estate. DH wants me to sell the ford and I want to sell the landrover. I lost the argument when the river was full and I drove through the ford in my escort it ripped the bottom off!

filthymindedvixen · 19/03/2007 18:12

holy shitting spiders.
dh has just told me our 20 year old knackered jeep is going to cost us £400 a year to tax. We tried to sell it last year and were only offered £500 for it because it is not poncey or posh and the market is apparently 'saturated' with better, bigger, posher models.. It was Just very sturdy, comfy and reliable and helps us visit my mum twice a week who lives rural...
We are totally fucked. We can't afford £400 and can't sell it now either.

TwoIfBySea · 19/03/2007 21:07

To me this is just another Londoncentric tax. All this talk about Chelsea tractors takes in no account of anyone who needs a 4X4 due to where they live.

We are okay (I think) we have a diesel Picasso but dh's friend lives further out in the countryside and if it wasn't for a 4x4 there would be certain times of the year where they would be trapped in their house. So they are being punished for living in the Scottish countryside and not being the type who have moved there to do that whole weird "Scottish experience" thing that the rich people who can afford this tax do. Maybe they should measure the amount of mud on the side of the 4X4, no mud then it isn't needed!

Ripeberry · 20/03/2007 13:28

Up until last year i used to hate 4X4 cars with a passion.
But since i bought a vauxhall zafira 1.8 i'm not so bothered by them as i'm not overlooked by enourmous 4X4s.
The tax should be high on any vehicle (other than commercial) with an engine size bigger than 3.5.
People who still need 4X4 for seating arrangements and rough roads could still use them but those people who get those ridiculous pick-up trucks with engines over 5.0 ltrs would be hit where it hurts.
Sorry, but i know someone near me who uses a vehicle like that for the school-run!
AB

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 14:05

Yes I know people like that too

Some of these bigger engined vehicles are sports cars and I know you don't need much of an engine in a smallc ar (hey I used to have a mini 1275 that was extremely fast LOL- used to be raced at castle combe once a year), but you do need a bigger engine in a big car- ours in 2L and it genuinely barely makes it up a hill fully loaded (our family + mum and dad who don't drive / aren't that mobile)

OP posts:
keeplaughing · 20/03/2007 14:10

However did people manage pre 4x4??

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 14:18

Oh we could manage without a big car.

Course, neither dh or I could earn any money (As CM wouldn't be able to get to us without her people carrier, and we wouldn't be able to get to her without ours) so we'd be on benefits, and we couldn't eat fresh food as we couldn't acccess a supermarket- so they'd live on crisps and frozen sausages from the local spar, but we'd survive. Just.

Pre 4x4 they used horses and man power. I seriously suspect people would be reluctant to pay the price hikes on the limited amount of produce that can be faremed this way.

Course I'm from Somerset so i am biased to- wards the farming / rural communities needs- I am well aware of the chelsea tractor brigade and I don't get 4X4's as a day to day non-work vehicle, in all honesty. But penalising the rural people for their cars which are odten needed, or Sn famillies for needing a bigger vehicle is just so unfair imo.

OP posts:
expatinscotland · 20/03/2007 14:20

Brown will tax us for breathing if given the opportunity.

He's a worthless waste of space.

If he had a pair he'd be dangerous.

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 14:25

LOL Expat- that is such a you comment !

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keeplaughing · 20/03/2007 14:48

calm peachyclair not on a 4x4 mission re people who need them. Absolutely, completely with you. It's the f*wits who dont who should have to pay double double tax. Unfortunately they can afford extra tax so you're right it's just going to penalise others. Not fair, you are absolutly right to be pissed off

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 14:52

I know keeplaughing

trouble is, they bkanket tax us

Already at the car rules- having 2 SN kids doesn't round our way entitle us to a disability badge, if the kids individually don't get amx DLA. As if its not ahrder to manage 2 ASD children (and an NT one) together than 2 NT ones- sigh.

OP posts:
clumsymum · 20/03/2007 14:57

Peachyclair
side issue I know.
Have you tried more than once for mobility DLA?

My stepson gets it. he has autism, was always physically fit, but could not be safely guided across say a busy city street. Also they couldn't be certain if he wouldn't just sit down in the middle of crossing a road or some such. I know he is much older, it was awarded when he was little and just continued from there (doesn't really need it at all now. His mentors let him go Christmas shopping on his own in Hull last year).

But it may well be worth you re-applying, and appeal if you get turned down.

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 15:04

We should have appealed for DS1, we were just getting over the DX though. DS3 application due in July- so will pus push push then (he does the same thing, sitting down, and he screams if you hold his hand and doesn't fir his reins)

Thanks you

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MerryMarigold · 20/03/2007 15:07

I was over the moon when I heard about the tax. Didn't think about people like you, peachyclair, or others who really need it. There should definitely be a way to appeal against it if you REQUIRE one due to the area you live in.

Sadly, the vast majority of 4x4-ers don't live in rural areas or even (well, my bil and sil, anyway) don't have kids! I'm so glad the tax will put these types off buying those type of cars. Don't be angry with Mr Brown, though, be angry with the ridiculous polluters who choose to drive these vehicles. I do hope they will figure a way to let those who do really NEED large cars to appeal though.

bozza · 20/03/2007 15:12

I don't feel that wanting a range rover for the school run can really be compared with needing a people carrier for a family of 5 with 2 SN children.

Peachy does your espace definitely count as a gas guzzler? Would it not have worked out cheaper to get a diesel?

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 15:15

bozza, the garage wrote our car off and we only ahd £1K for an emergency buy- had to get what we could,in a hurry, which was the Esapce.

We'd like LPG in the next car, not worth the conversion costs on thebL reg though

We're still nit sure what definition they're using tbh, so am aware we're panicking a little.

OP posts:
clumsymum · 20/03/2007 15:16

No that's the problem with taxes like these. They hit Everyone, regardless of circumstances.

I have exactly the same problem with petrol duty. Oh yes says everybody, that's fair because it hits people who drive further. If they don't want to pay it, drive less, take public transport.

But I (and lots of other people) can't manage on public transport. If I can't drive there, I don't go. which may restrict my ability to work, or see my elderly mother, or take ds to join in with his friends or lots of other things that everyone else can do.
And it really isn't practical to start allowing people to appeal on this reason or another. That just becomes too beauraucratic (sp?), and starts everyone at a disadvantage having to beg for assistance.

I don't know what the answer is, but sitting in Downing St. slapping taxes on this, that and the other (yes they probably will one day) isn't the answer.

HappyDaddy · 20/03/2007 15:18

I think it also hits saloon cars that have 4 wheel drive. That's madness as that actually makes the cars safer in the wet. It is a bit of a perk but not as if you're driving a big gas guzzler!

And until they put up taxes on flights more fairly, it's unrepresentative and bullshit.

MerryMarigold · 20/03/2007 15:22

There's PLENTY of bureaucracy out there anyway. Look at all the things you can appeal against anyway! I think this is a great idea in the absence of any others...and I'm sure it will have a fairly rapid impact.

bozza · 20/03/2007 15:26

So you are worrying ahead of the game, peachy? Only natural really. I don't think 2 litre is all that big is it?

Happydaddy is it really going to be based on the mode of drive and not just engine size? I thought all this "4 wheel drive" thing was just media dramatization? So even a 4wd Fiat Panda could be penalised? I assume peachyclair's espace isn't actually 4wd....

HappyDaddy · 20/03/2007 15:28

2 litres is not big, especially for a family sized car!

As far as I know, yes on the 4wd, rather than type of vehicle.

Original poster
PeachyClair · 20/03/2007 15:40

I ahd a look around for definitions of gas guzzler- some accountancy thread stated theye xpected it to be anything above 1.8L

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