What does everyone think about the new 'declare your parents education' UCAS rule?

[NotanOtter]

Seems a heap of proverbial to me....

Mad.

yes, SP, I think you're right.

pointydog... no, not really, but I do have a fair idea of how university admissions systems work, and factors like this are only ever going to be taken into account in borderline cases (where the decision isn't obvious). It's not going to be a case of turning people away because their parents have a degree. (Not in my subject, anyway.)

Wish it had been around in my day. I might have got into Oxford! (Bitter? Moi?)

pointydog... no, not really, but I do have a fair idea of how university admissions systems work, and factors like this are only ever going to be taken into account in borderline cases (where the decision isn't obvious). It's not going to be a case of turning people away because their parents have a degree. (Not in my subject, anyway.)

Wish it had been around in my day. I might have got into Oxford! (Bitter? Moi?)

Oops, I swear I only pressed that once.

I think Aloah is right on this. It really oughtn't to factor in the decision. My parents worked overtime day and night to put me through university but my pride would have prevented me putting that anywhere near an application form. I would do the same for my children. I fear that a generation will be skipped each time and what possible good can that do us? I loved learning and still do - I hope that I have and will continue to instill this in my children. When I grew up self-betterment was to be admired not belittled - this proposal would have made me and most of my schoolfriends very uncomfortable.

Smacks of social engineering to me.

I'm now really pleased my dh and I decided not to go to uni, as our poor disadvantaged children will have more opportunities open to them. Must remember to keep them in state schools.

The information re parental levels of education on the UCAS form will not be released to universities at the time when admissions tutors are making decisions. UCAS have not decided whether they are going to release it to universities at all, even after the new academic session has started and the applicants in question are registered students.

I went to a poly - what does that mean for the DS and DD?

I think it should be challenged through the Data Protection Act - I don't want my adult children making any statements about me on official forms, thanks

CAM, I feel sure that UCAS have checked the acceptability of asking for this info. Plus, do I have to say it again?
The information re parental levels of education on the UCAS form will not be released to universities at the time when admissions tutors are making decisions. UCAS have not decided whether they are going to release it to universities at all, even after the new academic session has started and the applicants in question are registered students.
I have no particular brief for UCAS, but I think that getting into a Daily Mail-style panic over this is really pointless.

Why should I believe what UCAS say they are going to do with the info?

I feel its an invasion of my privacy, what if I don't give permission for my children to say stuff about me?

Nothing to do with the Daily Mail,I can assure you, I just don't see what business it is of anybodys whether I went to uni or not?

It's just another snidey way of the govt gathering data on everybody

MuminBrum - In fact, from 2008, the data will be available to admissions tutors before they make decisions.

"... the Universities and Colleges Admissions Service (Ucas) ruled that tutors should know about candidates' family backgrounds before they offer students places. The changes come into force for students starting courses in autumn next year." (Manchester Evening News not the Daily Mail)

The trick is to go to uni as a mature student (age 23+) then they can't take your background into account

Have just checked the UCAS web site.

The info on parent's education and whether the applicant has ever been in care will be given to tutors from 2008.

UCAS are currently considering whether the information on ethnicity & parental occupation should also be given "The data has been collected by UCAS for many years but is currently made available to institutions at the end of the admissions cycle. The practicalities of this change are currently being investigated and the views of stakeholder bodies being sought."

link here

Thanks for that useful update, Rustybear. CAM, I do think you are agitating yourself unnecessarily about this issue; although I can't actually tell whether you are bothered about the goverment knowing whether you went to university, or admissions tutors knowing whether you went.
The government probably already knows whether you went to university or not; it will certainly know if you went to university in this country. It knows who your children are. Therefore even without the question on the UCAS form, the government will almost certainly know (if anyone is interested) whether you went to university or not.
You should also bear in mind that your postcode pretty much tells everyone who's interested a huge amount about you, including things like whether or not you are likely to be a university graduate, with a very high degree of statistical accuracy. Universities have been using this data (it's available via companies like Experian) for years.

I think Oxbridge is saying it will hold the information back from tutors. It is not very fair. if they do too much of this sort of thing richer parents will just opt out of state higher education. We'll get an Oxbridge College to opt out and just fund it and/or send children to study abroad. As it is at the moment there is no adverse effect and universities want the brightest pupils but as soon as you start putting money from the Government based on things like percentage of pupils from state schools or just comprehensives or of children who were in care or whatever you'll get an effect.

I do not know how they will check and whether students will lie. Perhaps they will ask for a parent's name to check if they went anywhere or not.

I think it's bullshit.

But then, I'll be actively encouraging my children not to go to university.

90% of the time, it's a waste of time and money.

discouraging, that is.

"We'll get an Oxbridge college to opt out"? Wow, Xenia, you must be seriously well-connected!

Wouldn't be hard. If one of the colleges had enough people incensed about social engineering and good clever students from private schools being excluded like in Communist China market forces just mean there'd be one or two opting into the private sector completely I expect. There would be enough rich people I suspect to make it work IF there wer ea problem. But one reason the universities work well and the NHS (largely) for that matter is that the middle classes and even the better off do buy into them and share the services. As soon as they become institutions for the poor they will deteriorate. So there could come a tipping point when no richer parent would take the risk of the state university education system. That would be a great shame and I very much doubt that that will happen.

At the moment most tutors will see someone with AAB from a school where everyone gets CCC or nothing and clearly I think most of us would think that candidate is exceptional and that system is working reasonably well now.

how does this work for overseas students who pay huge fees??