What does everyone think about the new 'declare your parents education' UCAS rule?

[NotanOtter]

Seems a heap of proverbial to me....

I work on a scheme (this is relevant to KKA's post) which tries to get kids from the mroe disadvantaged backgrounds (the Welsh valleys is where we're absed) into Uni. They run the schemes etc, but in combination with mentoring, I am one of a group of trained mentors whoa re assigned to 3 students, who each get 40 minutes of our time once a week, to talk about exams / careers / etc. I know I have one of mine applying for Uni after A Levels (he's staright A student, but was going to look for a shop job) and another, dyslexic child has gone from given up hope to a place ofn an Art course (she's amazingly talented) with a view to a degree.

So I do think the schemes work. So many kids, like the ones I grew up with, just don't see Uni as a possibility or an option. It wasn't for me and my friends, not at all in reality. Nobody on our estates went. yet despite caring for my 3 I got a B+ and a B back today, so I must have the ability.

you don't have to put it on the form though I think (although the implication, I guess, is that if you have left it off, it's because your parents did go to university)

my mother left school early and never studied any further and we were, like martianbishop, actively encouraged to go to university because my mother was never given the opportunity.

I just think it is far too simple to think that parental education is the most important factor in whether your children are motivated to go to university or not (although it may well be the factor that is easiest to measure I guess).

PC - that schmeme sounds great and surely must be more effective than some blanket request for information about parents. And presumably the school and the student can mention what they want in the application?

who says it's the most important factor?

It is one very small factor which can partially be addressed through looking at such information after grades, outside interests etc have been taken into account.

because they want it on the form - implication thereby that it's an important factor to them

foxinsocks: but parental education is the biggest factor statistically. It's not the only factor but it is the biggest, I don't think that's too simple.

So if this girl has straight As etc and the problem she had was not considering university, then what relevance has a bit on the form demanding you confess your parents qualifications?
What next? A bit of nice Stalinist re-education for 'intellectuals'?

Actually I have revised my initial reactionary view. I suspect that this is one of those "as reported by the Daily Mail" issues.

In reality it will not stop people whose parents went to university from getting a place with the right grades. However, it is as well for university tutors to know at admission if someone doesn't have a background where going to university is a foregone conclusion. It must surely give a leg-up to students who are somewhat intimidated and mystified by the whole thing.

Especially at the better universities. So I am in favour now.

I am neither for now against.

I'll just have to coach the dcs harder

The schools apply and then they put forwards those students who they feel will benefit (some don't, we've all had one either too lazy or who has other problems going on , and can't benefit but they did get a chance at least). The Uni recruits mentors, and pair them up with the schools- I travel about an hour (on a paid for bus) to get there so we go a distance and hita reas with no Uni as well as the lcoal area. We take each child as they come, there's no agenda- everything from SN to family problems to maths revision. We get £25 a time (to professionalise it) but its been fun (term ends next week ) and tbh, I think the shock for many of them is someone who believes they can achieve it. Seeing the look on my girls face when she fgot into college- I'll never forget that. .

Lots of schools reject the opportunity though, too much work for them apaprently . Some schools seem to begrudge it as well- one mentor was asked to work in a cupboard- but we;'ve been lucky, a fab teacher to run who providex tea, coffee, follows things up for us and even lends us books!

Personally i'd love my kids to benefit from something similar one day, however they reduced funding next year so the students won't be paid and I know that measn at least 2 of us (me being one) won't be able to do it as a result. Seems a shame really, far mroe productive than ticking boxes on forms- coz 9/10 of it is getting them to have faith in themselves.

"I am neither for nor against"

...but your scheme sounds great, peachy. It's a shame they don't do more like it.

Aloha this boy did have the A's and wasn't considering Uni because nobody in the fa,mily though people like them went. When he expressed a desire to go, they went into panic as they had never heard of funding. Luvckily I culd give them the info BUT there's a thousand other kids like that out there..... a bit of support, especially in the run up to starting Uni, would (IMO) help the kids a lot. I mean, my BF left because she had picked a Uni too far from hme- my sis left because of funding- all things they could have received advice on early on and maybe not run up dets with no gain.

Its a grwoing scheme Senora, Newport, Cardiff and Glamorgan (iirc) all run branches now- lets hope it spreads

it is definitely not the most important factor or even a particularly important factor. It could help decide a few cases.

SP - because they can measure it.

You can't measure parental encouragement or involvement in education otherwise I'm sure that would be one of the biggest factors.

I don't understand the university system in this country at all. I can see why those who haven't been to university here would be totally confused by it all but I would rather see schemes like peachy's in place.

I also think, that if this is intended to help those whose parents didn't go to univesity, then they are really only getting the tiny percentage who actually have enough money/have been persuaded to apply in the first place iyswim.

other schemes will have to be - and often are - in place too. This is one small part.

Very about this whole thing - students should get in on their own merit/grades. Think the questions are actually horribly intrusive, why do they need to know the income of the highest earning parent - if it was for a grant then fair enough but just as part of an application, just rude! They would be better off ploughing some funding into ensuring that pupils get the proper advice and support in maing their applications in the first place across the board so not diadvantaged by poor advice - careers advice etc really seems to vary from school to school.

it's how you define 'own merit' I suppose. Grades still most important thing, especially for 'top' unis.

I've been involved with various WP events, too (summer schools and the like) and I think that they are massively important.

No-one has ever said that it's going to be the most important thing on the form. Give academics credit for a teeny bit of common sense (... I wouldn't claim to have much, mind you, but just the teensiest bit...). It's academics (not the politicians who want the question on the form) who decide who they let in to their courses, and they inevitably want the best people they can get. That's why no-one will be turned away if they have straight As, but happen also to have parents with PhDs. But another student might be let in with (let's say for the sake of argument) a B and two Cs, when the normal offer is two Bs and a C, if she comes from a background with no history of HE and from a state school which sends few kids to university.

I'm pleased about the 'in care' question being on the form.

Oh I see what you mean. Yes, parental encouragement is a big factor (probably the biggest) but like you say it's unmeasurable. parental education is the biggest measurable factor, and is in itself an indicator of parental encouragement. yes there are people who have the education but don't give the encouragement and vice versa, but there have been a couple of studies which showed that in general, educated parents encouraged their children more.

An imperfect measure is better than no measure at all isn't it?

oh ellbell, you're obviously up on this, then?

I didn't say it was the most important question on the form

If they really want more people to apply

scrap the application fee

Itb took me a month to save up that £15.

it might not be much, for some its more than enough to put them off.