Baby milk firms to drop nutrition claims

[Nip]

here

I guess those who bf this is a good thing, but i didnt bf and this now makes me feel like cack!

India,I'll find you something interesting to read.....

Have a read of this.It would be most interesting to garner your opinion

Moondog, do you mean that ff is a bad idea when there is little or no access to clean water? That's a fair point: the agressive marketing of formula in developing countries does do serious damge. But an awful lot of babies are fed on formula in the Western world, for a variety of reasons, and the implications of giving them formula are perhaps a bit less serious than letting them starve because bf just isn't working.

Read the article Madame.
This is just one point that backs up my statement.
There are unfortunately many more.

Great idea bubble.

Whilst I still agree that breast is best and that society as a whole should be better educated about breast being best (I think Bubble's idea is a fantastic one and maybe the big TV companies should be approached to somehoe incorporate positive BF stories into some shows), however I think we all agree that bullying either way whether it is a mum who wants to (or has to) FF or a mum who wants to BF is wrong and very unhelpful.

As I've said before, why can;t we all support each other and our decisions - when we are happy are children are happy and that is how children thrive in a happy environment.

Everyone seems to think that what they did is right and anyone who dares to do otherwise is wrong. Breast vs formula / sahm vs working mums / routine (mention no names!) vs demand - does it really matter. As long as you are happy with your choice and your baby/child is developing well and healthy stuff whatever anyone else says and don't let them make you feel bad

My opinon of that piece? Alarmist, hairy-legged-hippy bollocks, to be frank. I note, for instance, the use of a very common tactic in propaganda, saying that something produces twice the risk or whatever - without mentioning that the initial risk is something like one in ten thousand.
I'm also not wild about the implication that it's better to exploit another woman (wetnurses were generally poor women, often women whose own children had died) than feed formula.

Mishw,I think the best way of supporting each other is to ensure that women have access to factual information about the feeding choices they will make.

Supporting each other is sooooo not about patting someone on the back (who maybe has had shit advice and support with breastfeeding) and saying 'it doesn't matter' because it does matter.It matters enormously that millions of women around the world are being let down,misinformend,and manipulated by greddy corporations with huge amounts of money to throw about.

Bubble's point about soapsand similar is an interesting one.
We have to question if soaps are meant to entertain or educate.
If it is the former then I don't see that they have any obligation to present an idealised version of the world.
Having lived in formerly Communist countries,I have seen that there is a very fine line between information and propoganda.

lol lol lol (in a rather resigned and cynical fashion) at Madame.

The facts are interesting - but, I'm afraid that I'm very sceptical of statistics. To take the first point made for example:

"ff - twice the risk of dying in the first 6 weeks of life"

Questions I'd like to have answered -

1 is this a UK statistic or worldwide? If it incorporates developing countries, I'm not surprised. Issues with cleanliness and sanitation will obviously result in a far higher mortality rate for ff than breastfeeding.

2 what is the risk of dying in the first place? I work in risk managment and appreciate that a certain amount of risk in our lives is acceptable (eg I live in a big city so my kids breath in far more pollution and there will be inherent risks involved in that which I'm obviously prepared to accept).

Essentially I agree that bf is better than ff and I boycotted Nestle for many years in the 80's for their unethical promotion of ff in (then) "3rd world" countries. (I have no time and respect for companies that act in this way and refuse to invest in them through my pension or other means).

But, I find the initial paragraph of the article, unnecessarily inflamatory, it uses overly emotive language ("predatory", "negligent" etc) and rather sensationalist while puporting to be a "scientific" expose. And, I find that misleading and quite frankly, it insults my intelligence.

Fair points.
There will be an element of subjectivity in an article from the Ecologist obviously.

Further comments on that article: I find it very condescending towards "women on low incomes" who are evidently all too thick to believe their "betters" about whether or not breastfeeding hurts. It can hurt. There is such a thing as mastitis.
And all this nature's-way-is-better crap falls apart very quickly when you remember that nature's way, giving birth in the forest or whatever, without medical intervention, involves far higher rates of infant mortality than access to sterile medical equipment and antibiotics... As to the stuff about evil baby-milk manufactorers contaminating their products with broken glass, oh ffs, talk about clutching at straws.

It is very sad that we are more likely to witness someone masturbating a pig on prime time television than see someone breastfeeding - and the pig woman would probably attract fewer complaints

Moondog, if you read my post properly you will see that I totally agree that breast is best and feel really proud of myself for BF both my girls and yes I also said that women should be better educated, but I think its more than that I think that society as a whole should be better educated so that women don't feel that it is embarrasing, wrong, unnatural etc etc, however making a mother feel bad for not breastfeeding does not help anyone most of all the baby who is going to have a stressed out mum who feels guilty.

There needs to be more BF counsellor's and positive HV and MW to help encourage women not bully them and make them feel bad.

All I am saying is that I am sick of one camp of mother attacking another group for their choice. If you want to change things attack those big corporations not the mothers.

Sorry but I have never understood how exactly someone can be to feel guilty....

Personally I think it is a good thing but I'd rather more money and focus was on training health to actually be well informed themselves.

i always find that such a stupid point, hercules. of course someone can be made to feel guilty. persistently telling a mother that she isn't trying hard enough/doing it all wrong when in fact she is working her arse off would make anyone feel guitly.
with regards to the FF/BF thing, the notion of not feelign guilty at having given your child formula presupposes that you are happy with what you have done. which, as you must surely have gathered from reading these threads ad nauseam, is rarely the case among the MN constituency.

good point aitch, and sctually moondaog, i agree with madamez. that "article" highlights everything thats wrong about bf promotion, namely implying that ff mums dont WANT the beast for their child. "its been done for years, so why cant you" ffs its not like feeding your newborn a mcflurry, it is the only alternative to bm, and as for not understanding how you can be made to feel guilty, i sincerely hope that you never find yourself unable to bf, im sure you will feel v differently then!

I dont believe that anybody has persistently been told again and again they are failures because they werent able to breastfeed. If you didnt have adequate support and/or crap advice it's hardly your fault you couldnt breastfeed so why the guilt? If you made a decision not to breastfeed then why feel guilty for that? I've had comments about extended feeding but don't feel a jot guilty.
Sorry you've not convinced me

Actually I did struggle to feed ds and he had a bottle of formula in the hospital due to the staff saying he needed it and me knowing no better. I dont feel guilty for this but angry at the crap staff who should have known better and were advising me wrongly. Thankfully I knew better when they tried to get me to give dd formula as she was a big baby.

It's about hearing what you think people are saying, quite often, IMO. Did you see my thread about how we feel about our choices (mentioned below)?

Look at how many posters say things like "I was ffeeding at toddlers and a woman was bfeeding and I knew what she was thinking" - er, no you didn't.

Yes hunker. Thinking people are persistently critising you is different from the reality. Surely if you are doing your best or what is the best for your circumstances I dont see why you would feel guilt for this be it formula feeding or whatever.

MishW I agree with what you are saying.
People can't and shouldn't be bullied into things.
They do however need to be made aware of the facts andit seems that many would rather that the facts were hidden/obscured for fear of causing offence.I don't get that at all.

If you look at the article I linked to, it says exactly what you are saying.

Look at the last paragraph (entitled 'Not good enough') where the author states that 'the simplistic 'breast is best' message is not good enough.'

if you read a lot of womens experiences if they have attempted to bf you will see quite another side! i was asked in hospital (by a mw) if i loved my ds when after 3 days and nights of trying and failing to bf i finally gave up and asked for fm. the main prob is that the division between bf and ff mums is so huge and has been made into such a big deal by both sides that its going to be v diff to overcome. by all means promote bf as the best feeding option (coz it is) but why make ff mums feel like crap in the process? in my hosp the wards were divided into bf vb/bf cs/ff vb and ff cs. so after failing to bf i was stuck in a bay with 7 other bf mums and the mws kept pointing them out to me as "so and so worked at it, and shes fine now" is it any wonder that women feel guilty? and as for fm not being an alternative to bm, what is? a wet nurse?

Lissie,I find it very sad as well as professionally irresponsible if you were asked that question re loving your baby.

unfortunately if you talk to a lot on mners who ff thru necessity rather than choice there does seem to be a trend of hps making inappropriate, offensive comments. THATS why i feel guilty, add onto that the complications of PND and you have one v unhappy, confused woman who for a long time was ashamed of herself for not only failing to provide the best possible food for her son but blamed the ff on her inability to bond.

Which brings us back inexorably to the most important point which is that real supprt has to be there from the start for breastfeeding and that information needs to be made freely available re content of and implications of formula feeding.

This would benefit both brestfeeders and formula feeders.

Knowledge is power.