Baby milk firms to drop nutrition claims

[Nip]

here

I guess those who bf this is a good thing, but i didnt bf and this now makes me feel like cack!

i thought the proteins had to be altered to make them more digestible, goodasgold.

the problem i have with closest to bm, twinkle, is that despite buying aptamil precisely because of that phrase, i then saw it on a cow and gate tub and went into a panic.

i think if they government's taking it seriously it should run tests, tbh. and i know this is controversial but i do think that those of us who ff for whatever reason just have to suck it up. if that's the only thing we've got to feel guilty about with regards to our children then we'll be doing okay.

I heard that C&G and Aptamil are exactly the same formulation because C&G bought them out. So I guess in this instance they can both be right?

What's your take on follow-on milk Aitch? Do/did you use it, or just the normal one? I really wish I could use cows milk now TBH.

Aitch you may be right about the proteins, however cows milk was given in the past, just with added sugar.
Think I may have read that pigs milk it more similar, but don't think I would be bothered to try to source it to make may own formula

Goodasgold - wasn't it you that said giving cows milk to a baby was almost as bad as getting your cat to feed them?

Yes Twinklemegan, I think I said the idea of my dd having cows milk seemed as unnatural as her suckling from a cat.

Madamez - you may have taken what I said in the wrong way (or maybe thr rest of your post wasn't directed at me in which case I read you thread the wrong way!) but I didn't say anything negative about FF babies and mums who for whatever reason don't nreastfeed - completely the opposite.

As I always say, babies and children thrive best when their mum is happy. We all know that BM is best, however some mums can't BF or feel uncomfortable with it and therefore would not be happy and all the added pressure from MW and HV just make the guilt worse. So whilst I agree that there needs to be more education and support re BF, mothers who don't should not be made to feel guilty.

see i'm never that convinced by the 'in the past' business. not given the child mortality rate in the past...

i never swapped from the first milk, tbh, twinkle. if those fish oils were going to do comething in the first six months then i wanted to keep them working all the way. (although god knows whether they do or don't).

as regards the expense issue, dd is 14 months and if she drinks organic full milk it's actually pretty pricey so not a saving on formula particularly.

the next best thing to your own breastmilk, is another mother's breastmilk.

if you can't breastfeed for any reason, the alternative is to use a milk-bank (gooogle it). there are only a few accross the country and if more of these sites were opened, then this would be a valid alternative to mother's own breastmilk.

especially the colostrum (first milk) that the baby suckles on contains lots og immunising defenses to expel the black stuff in the tummy and line the baby tummy with good bacteria. just ask any cow farmer - that's what they advise.

not all milk is created equal!!

: )

I donated 20 litres of breast milk to our hospital milk bank! My DD was 10 weeks early and only had about 100ml a day (up her nose) for her first few weeks while I produced insane amounts- getting carried away with the electic breast pump they gave me!

I thought the hospital only made it available to other babies in their ICU /SCBU

well done indiajane - I too have been donating though I'm waiting to find out if the last lot will be usable or not as both DD's had chicken pox and I've never had it - don;t want to pass anything on to the prem babes.

I think because there is not enough known about the milk banks that the milk they do receive is very precious so only given to the prem and very sick babies - definitely worth doing though and very easy to donate. All I had to do was have a blood test (and I'm needle phobic!), they would send me the bottles and collect them when I had a good supply, there is no target that you have to reach every drop you can give is precious.

I will find the website and post it on here if anyone is interested.

Casbie, milk banks are for prem babies - not for women who don't fancy bfeeding.

Lissie, how would you rather do it? You say that promoting breast is best is to the detriment of ffeeding mothers and makes them feel guilty - but if it's NOT promoted, fewer and fewer women will bfeed, because "it's all the same thing" (I've heard several people say similar things in RL).

It's not the same thing though - and while I'd hate to make anyone feel guilty by saying that, it's kind of unavoidable. It's like trying to pretend that turquoise is emerald green.

what im saying hunkermunker, is that there is a happy medium and the majority of women are in possession of the facts. and while some choose not to bf, others cannot and surely exercises like the recent "no fm in hospitals" issue and removing any reassurance that fm is an alternative to bm from the labels only serve to make new mums feel even more inadequate? surely as well as promoting breast is best the hv's, mw's etc should also reassure mums that actually they are not harming their child by ff, and its not a bad thing. i dont know any bf mums who were influenced in their decision by the breast is best campaign. they wanted to bf coz it is/was right for them. however the majority of ff mums i know were made to feel like sh*t by mws for their inability/reluctance to bf.

Very interesting, have been looking on web and it appears that the three recognised barriers to breastfeeding (ie women who chose not to do so) are embarrassment, time and social constraints and lack of social support. I've also read that women who intend to / do breastfeed are more often white, some college education, higher income and smaller family size.

The article concludes that increasing breastfeeding should be done by increasing knowledge, enhancing self-confidence in the mothers ability and overcoming barriers espc lack of social support.

Now obviously don't know one way or another how accurate the stuff about white/college/higher income stuff is but I do agree with the conclusion outlined above. Not sure of my point - just though it was interesting!

Also it appears that although more mums will start to bf if they deliver in Baby Friendly Initiative maternity units, after 1 month it's all evened out.

No fm in hospitals??? - do you mean women have been prevented ff their babies while they are in hospital

Good lord that's so outrageous. Do the mums have to take their babies outside to ff them - perhaps in the smoking shelter?

It's difficult though, Lissie - I know women who were encouraged to stop bfeeding because "formula's as good as bmilk" and "it's got the same stuff in as bmilk" and "they wouldn't sell it if it wasn't as good" (all direct quotes).

You say the majority of women know the facts - I don't think they do. LOADS of people don't have much idea what's in formula - they might know the marketing spin ("it's got LCPs in, says they're in bmilk, so must be fine", etc).

I agree totally that women shouldn't be made to feel bad by overbearing midwives who shout at them for their decision (it's often not a choice to ffeed) - but I started a thread months ago about how we feel about our choices that demonstrated that it wasn't what people said, rather what we heard. My elderly (and lovely) neighbour had asked if I was "feeding DS1 myself" and when I said yes, she said "Oh, good, that's lovely!".

If I'd been ffeeding, I'd have felt crap about that - I'm sure she'd not have said "You EVIL woman!" but I'd have heard that implied (whether it was or not), because of how I'd have felt about ffeeding.

(IJ, I think she means hospitals that don't provide formula - if you're going to ffeed, you have to take your own)

I'm probably meandering off topic here. But I wish Bfeeding was incorporated into storylines of soaps, TV dramas, films etc. It is the 'normal' thing to do when your baby is hungry, yet it's rarely seen on TV.

That would be the best advertising.

so true, bubble. an excellent point.

Re feeding condensed milk/cows milk instead of formula - according to my mum my bro was fed with condensed milk and I was fed on cow's milk... (we were born in the 70s).
I was completely shocked when I found this out, but it does make me inwardly question just how big a difference it all makes since I am the healthiest person I know.
(Not saying bf isn't best, I know it is, I just wonder how much of a difference it makes if you have "good" genes).

great point bubble!

and yes, HM thats what i was referring to. wasnt v clear, sorry

I'm a bit worried by the idea of no ff in hospitals. After all, there are times when a new mum just CAN'T bf - if she's producing no milk or if the LO is tongue-tied (which makes latching on almost impossible), for instance. While BF is nearly always the best solution, if it's not working out then better ff than a miserably hungry infant. I remember bawling miserably in the maternity ward because I just couldn't feed DS (no milk due to being induced plus huge doses of Labetolol, inverted nipples, DS having inherited my pronounced nose and chin which meant his poor little lips had very little chance of homing in on my non-existent nipples...) and had been told that if he had the slightest sip off a bottle I would never be able to feed him, he was howling with hunger... at least someone was able to tell me that giving him some formula once wouldn't stop me trying to bf later. ANd yes, I tried expressing as well but about an hour of pumping produced about three drops... I used to desperately wring out each boob against his face midway through a ff and get a few drops a day into him for about the first month, having been told that every drop is a bonus, but still. He's a fine thriving toddler now, btw.

Oh Madamez, that's such a sad story - at a time when you should have been so happy and proud. I think that's what gets me most about the breast is best campaign, mums are made to think it's the be all and end all to mothering when of course it's not.

So many of my friends have got similar stories too - of being quite frankly bullied at a time when they were at their most vulnerable.

Works the other way more often however India.
Women bullied into giving up b/feeding when at their most vulnerable.

What has to stop is assumption that f/feeding is default option and/or as near as dammit to breastmilk.

It aint and women have a right to know of the very serious implications of giving their babies formula.

Sometimes that makes for uncomfortable knowledge but hey,so do many things.
I want to know the facts about every choice I make for my children.

Surely it depends what you mean by "default option"?

If you mean next best thing to breastfeeding...formula is isn't it? If formula isn't the next best thing.... what is?

"very serious implications of giving their babies formula" - excuse me? It's not poison!

I agree with you however, my "research" on the web does indicate that many women don't start bf or stop it due to "perceived social barriers" and that's not right either. And I'm all for informed choice.