Interesting negotiating starting point: bragging about being a difficult woman

[greyffinch]

A year ago, they were our closest allies. Now May is bragging that they will find her to be a bloody difficult woman.

I feel so sad that Brexit has come to this as I am not sure those who voted out wanted us to be at loggerheads with the EU.

What do you think if you voted out?

TBH I think the rest of the EU's insiders are absolutely baffled by the cluelessness of British politicians and the 52%.

British EU civil servants (of whom my father was one, and I still know many who are either at the end of their careers or recently retired) tended to be cerebral, measured sorts.

greyffinch I do not get the "go in hard" approach and get everyone against you me neither.

I have seen this in negotiations - it gets the other side's back up, they pull up the draw-bridge and it makes getting anything out of them 100 times harder.

The best negotiators I ever watched/dealt with/worked along side were absolutely calm but commanded a room. On a conference call they said the least but made the biggest impact, in some cases they had the other side asking to hire them at the end of the deal. No need for posturing or self-promotion along the way. There absolutely is a time and place for letting rip but it is seldom used, once or less than once per deal for maximum effect.

Thnaks god we have a strong leader standing up for us. The EU is deluded if they think we are going to pay a one hundred billion bill to leave. Talk about being on a different planet.

because she is a stubborn and intensely selfish only child with no children who doesn't have the first clue about win-win negotiation tactics, having never needed to consider any one else's needs or feelings in order to get what she wants.

Wow. Are all childfree only children like that then? Who knew that they are all selfish...

Are you prone to ridiculous statements all the time?

She didn't have a choice about being an only child

She might or might not have had a choice about having children

It's funny isn't it, a man would never be judged on whether he had children or siblings

Jamie

"The UK is deluded if they think they are not going to pay a one hundred billion bill to leave, to settle their obligations to us. Talk about being on a different planet."

I've added the bit in italic but otherwise I fail to see how that rationale is any different when it is flipped and all 27 EU countries that that position without our stance on exit payment.

"The EU is deluded if they think we are going to pay a one hundred billion bill to leave."

No pay, no deal.

I think we should pay the money and ask for the Berlaymont in return!

No pay, no deal
Fine

Everyone now accepts that the infamous bus with the £££ sent to the EU being made available for he NHS was bunkum. And yet some leavers are still segueing we won't have to pay the divorce bill. We are legally committed to certain costs. Is that so hard?

I don't think it matters. Even if she walked on water to cross the Channel, non Tory voters and Remainers would still find something to be critical about.

I'm glad she is standing firm. The EU's posturing is absurd and they can go hang if they think we will pay them 100bn pounds or even 50m.

But she has made no concessions to remainders. None.

That's because remainders are left over.

Standing firm?
She is acting like a petulant child. This is meant to be a negotiation, not a play date. I have no respect for her or her threats of being difficult. She is not in the position of power here.

How are the EU in a position of power? The EU has no set mechanism for A50 being triggered, indeed, they are in the dark as well. There doesn't seem to be a step by step process set out in the Treaties either, so they are making it up as they go along.

There is a budget shortfall afaik of €148 billion to the end of the current spending round in 2020. I see no reason why the UK should be responsible for most of that. We should pay until we leave, as a member state, then pay what we owe to the end of the 2020 round for allocated spending, after our share of the EU assets has been calculated and removed from the final liability.

I would remind you also that Juncker has form for, and is, a self confessed, liar. If you choose to believe him, then crack on.

Norland She's not buying a used car you know!

Thank heavens you came along to put me straight on that noidea I was convinced it was all driven by the German car industry going bust due to Treasure Island closing.

www.independent.co.uk/travel/germanys-treasure-island-1327120.html

The fact that details (disputed ones) were leaked to the press by the Europeans is extremely unprofessional and bodes very badly for the negotiations. It certainly could be interpreted as bullying and I think she was right to point it out. I think she was very measured under the circumstances. Unfortunately, the most important points of her speech have not been reported in the Frankfurter Allgemeine (the paper that printed the "details" of the "disastrous" dinner in the first place), for obvious reasons. I thought the article by Varoufakis in the Guardian yesterday about his experiences negotiating with the EU was very interesting and tells us what to expect of the process.
The EU commission is known to be as leaky as a sieve.

"The EU commission is known to be as leaky as a sieve."

Otherwise known as transparency. One of the cornerstones of good governance.

How can leaking unauthorised and highly disputed details to the press of a private meeting have anything to do with transparency? Good governance would be quite the opposite of that.

She's bolstered by a load of right wingers who want a hard Brexit and still believe the UK is some kind of empire style power.

I hate the assumption that people who voted Brexit voted for "whatever deal Theresa May gets". I think the deal should go back to the people so if she ruins negotiations then she's accountable to the public. At the moment she's said it's "my deal or I'll do Brexit with no deal" basically holding a gun to parliaments head.
(Stupid given all this chat about Brexiters wanting parliament to be sovereign).

I think it's normal at this stage for both sides to suggest a no deal Brexit is acceptable, it's just an opening gambit and I really hope a good negotiating relationship can develop over the next 18 months. Elections here and in Germany aren't helping because politicians love a punchy hardline soundbite. I'm trying to sit tight and breathe until elections are over, then I hope we'll see progress. But I have much more faith in UK doing the necessary to develop that than the Europeans, especially with Juncker on the loose.

AFAIK only one side has said that a no deal Brexit is acceptable. Remember? "No deal is better than a bad deal"

The report of the dinner was leaked due to frustration that May has no understanding what Brexit means. She seems to think it means cherry-picking all the bits of the EU that she likes but discarding the rest. This is a fantasy. It is just not going to
happen. Speeches about being 'optimistic' on her Brexit vision mislead the British public.

The EU has been extremely consistent but is frustrated that the UK government are not listening and instead are putting party above country.

It is impossible to negotiate with someone who does not listen. For example, May thought a deal could quickly be reached on EU citizens by treating them the same as other foreign nationals. If this is true, then she is exceptionally naive as the EU's position is that EU citizens should retain the same rights as now post-Brexit. This means NHS and pension rights and the ability to bring a spouse and to have their rights upheld by the EU courts. May was ridiculously badly briefed if she had not appreciated the chasm between their positions.

Given this incredulity, what can the EU do?

I am talking about the sides to the negotiation (Europeans and us), not sides within UK politics.