Interesting negotiating starting point: bragging about being a difficult woman

[greyffinch]

A year ago, they were our closest allies. Now May is bragging that they will find her to be a bloody difficult woman.

I feel so sad that Brexit has come to this as I am not sure those who voted out wanted us to be at loggerheads with the EU.

What do you think if you voted out?

I don't get why people don't understand the starting position. I'm a contractor and say a client decided they no longer wanted to work with me as they no longer thought it was of benefit to them. The contract with them included a penalty if they chose to cut the relationship short to cover previously agreed obligations. They then refused to pay. Can you imagine the thread on mumsnet...

I agree. May is playing to the Daily Mail but not acting in the best interests of the country. Her actions will make any compromise by either side difficult and it genuinely seems that she does not understand this. She is like a chippy teenager in a room of grown-ups.

The right-wing press is to blame. For years they drip-fed negative stories about Brussels until the country as a whole felt hard-done by. This is incredulous to an outside observer. Britain had by far the best deal of any country in the EU. We had full access to the single market at a reduced rate (our rebate), we opted out of Schengen and the Euro, we refused to take any share of refugees in the refugee crisis. The City of London dominated EU financial markets despite not being in the Euro. We were the number 1 destination for foreign direct investment as companies could build plants here, in an English speaking country to serve the whole EU (Nissan etc). Same for airlines (Easyjet) and also for broadcasters (Discovery/Sky etc can broadcast to all of EU from one member state).

Honestly, I cannot see this ending in any way other than the UK flouncing out. May has backed herself into a corner.

May looks utterly ridiculous at the moment.

She is like a chippy teenager in a room of grown-ups

I agree.

Nobody starts off selling something at the cheapest price and then goes up (unless it's with more added extras)

All the negotiators will adopt a hard-line position in public - mostly for the benefit of the gullible, who make up 95% of the populace - whilst the actual terms of the deal will be thrashed out by anonymous civil servants.

whilst the actual terms of the deal will be thrashed out by anonymous civil servants.

I know a couple of the anonymous civil servants - they are saying it is an absolute disaster. David Davis knows absolutely NOTHING.

Its incredible that some people are clinging on to this belief that - "oh, the people in charge will sort it all out. I trust them". (Bizarrely, I've found the people saying this were the same people who only six months ago were saying - "we're giving the people in charge a massive kicking".)

This country is very rapidly going down the shitter, thanks to the bloody difficult woman.

I know a couple of the anonymous civil servants - they are saying it is an absolute disaster. David Davis knows absolutely NOTHING.

Of course you do, after all, you're an anonymous poster on an internet forum but clearly in the know AND know the people making up the senior negotiating team. These people are so trusting of your discretion, they've shared their opinions of a cabinet minister with you, secure in the knowledge, that you will further share this information, thus alerting the public to the need of an immediate change in government policy and personnel.

Theresa May grates on me, whenever I hear her speak but if she's going to get the best deal for the British taxpayer by playing rough with her opposite number(s) that's a good thing.

David Cameron was reasonable with the EU - look where it got us. Margaret Thatcher was a bloody difficult woman - look what rebates she won.
I'm pissed off with the EU seeming to think that they get to set the agenda, there are two sides to this negotiation. TM needs to play a long game, the EU 'unity' will soon fall to pieces.

I find it embarrassing to be British abroad right now. Nobody understands this pugnacious approach from a woman who campaigned remain and after no conversations about hard Brexit during the referendum.

Purits. You obviously feel hard done by with the EU. What exactly do you think was bad about Britain's terms?

I find it embarrassing to be British abroad right now.

Why? Even Macron has said that "Brussels must reform or risk Frexit". The EU is past its sell-by date.

Will you be returning to the UK greyffinch? That will spare your blushes.

I was content with a free trade agreement. I never wanted a Single Market and never had a chance to vote on it. It was a done-deal by politicians who never consulted the electorate.

histiny I too know someone who transferred to the Brexit team who has a similar view. She purchased 'Negotiating for Dummies' when she made the move I wish I was joking. It's common knowledge we are understaffed, inexperienced and David Davis is way out of his depth. No amount of scorn poured on your contribution by Norland will change the truth in it.

In terms of the OP, TM looks foolish with her 'bloody difficult woman' claims. It's everything about the GE and nothing about an appropriate way to commence negotiations with the EU. I spent years negotiating corporate M&A deals, I can guarantee announcing myself as a 'bloody difficult woman' would at best be viewed with bemusement - especially if the balance of power was with the opposite side, as it is here. It's just affirming yourself as a 'Scrappy-Doo' type of character. Those with real power and gravitas have no need to keep shouting about their supposed strengths. We need intelligent power and persuasion not belligerence and tabloid soundbites.

greyfinch I too am in the embarrassed Brit abroad camp and share your pain. May is as much of an embarrassment as the 52%. It's only going to get more cringe-worthy as we hurl ourselves off the cliff singing Rule Britannia and waving Union Jacks.

I'm supposed to go back after 2 years but not sure I want to. I can see it deteriorating in front of my eyes.

It's common knowledge we are understaffed, inexperienced and David Davis

Why is that? Oh yes, it's because all the negotiators are in the EU. Isn't it great that they have - according to you - rendered us unskilled, incompetent and unable to run our own country. Huzzah for the EU!

Yes but - it's all an electoral tactic isn't it? There are many, very many voters - particularly those of the older generation - who wbelieve that Europe should not be tells us what to do. They hate the thought of those pesky Germans and French politicians 'making our laws'. It's time to take control, don't you know.

A great many of them will have a huge smile on their face when hearing May talking in those terms, 'I will be a bloody difficult woman'. That sort of language, which I find completely unacceptable, is praised by many voters. Especially those who think that the English should not be told what to do by those Europeans.

There is nothing rational about it. It's not a negotiating position, it's an electoral strategy.

Purits leavers cannot create a situation then blame the status quo for not being able to cope with that situation.

What negotiators we do have being in the EU is not a new thing, is it?

What negotiators we do have being in the EU is not a new thing, is it?

Like I said, I never liked the system in the first place.

Ever since becoming PM, Theresa May has illustrated that her "difficult woman" reputation is warranted. This is not because she is a skilled negotiator but because she is a stubborn and intensely selfish only child with no children who doesn't have the first clue about win-win negotiation tactics, having never needed to consider any one else's needs or feelings in order to get what she wants.

bobochic I like your psychoanalysis! Spot on.

but clearly in the know AND know the people making up the senior negotiating team. These people are so trusting of your discretion, they've shared their opinions of a cabinet minister with you

I didn't actually say that.

Still deluded Norland, carry on believing the anonymous civil servants under such strong and stable leadership will all save us from the nasty EU. Hurrah for their secret beavering away! Your faith is really quite sweet.

Thanks, greyffinch!

Hurrah for their secret beavering away despite the fact most of them haven't a clue what they are doing and have never worked on putting a deal together in their lives

I do not get the "go in hard" approach and get everyone against you whilst simultaneously bragging to the media. We need a serious, realistic negotiation based on everyone getting the best possible outcome.