Interesting negotiating starting point: bragging about being a difficult woman

[greyffinch]

A year ago, they were our closest allies. Now May is bragging that they will find her to be a bloody difficult woman.

I feel so sad that Brexit has come to this as I am not sure those who voted out wanted us to be at loggerheads with the EU.

What do you think if you voted out?

Yes I agree. This sort of breakdown in relationships was difficult to predict, although there were many people saying if we left the eu we would be made an example of.

I am totally shocked that May thinks this is the direction the country wants. Who is briefing her to be this pugnacious? I want a soft Brexit.

What do you think of the posturing and threats the EU are making?

I think it's good that she's not going to roll over and accept whatever the EU offer. If Cameron has actually brought something back from his negotiations then perhaps the outcome would be different.

At the end of the day there is going to be a lot of nonsense from both sides.

But again, her going to the EU with a proposal for a soft Brexit would provoke a very different response and posturing from them. Why does she think people who voted Brexit want the hardest of hard Brexits?

And by taking this approach, she is backing herself I To a corner. Terrible negotiation strategy. She could start in the middle ground and go hharder. Where does she go from here, having got everyone's back up?

Because it is a starting position. Same as theirs is.

The best possible outcome is a phased withdrawal, something that has been written about extensively. I think this is what TM is aiming for.

It will have to be a hard exit because it looks like the EU is going to do everything it can to punish the UK for leaving. May is actually being fairly measured in her approach by wanting a phased withdrawal. Remember that the EU is shit when it comes to anti-terror intelligence; it depends on the UK for it's surveillence and as May has put that on the block too, I anticipate that what the EU fails to negotiate individual countries may well do instead.

I think that the bragging and the swearing make her look weak.

I don't think the EU want to punish the UK. This is accepted as a given in the UK (the Daily Mail magic) but that mood doesn't exist in Brussels. The mood in the continent is not belligerent, more shocked at the things the UK is saying and doing. The EU understands that no trade deal is not in anyone's interest so takes a constructive approach to negotiations.

Unfortunately the EU'S position is so strong that the only hand TM has is the bargaining chips fate of EU citizens in the UK. Withholding antiterror intelligence was an empty threat and was withdrawn shortly after it was insinuated - again having caused shock.

I too am sad, and a bit embarrassed, at TM's attitude. This is so serious and complex and some people are treating it like a England Euro match, or an episode of dad's army.

She is trying to play tough girl because she doesn't know a better negotiation strategy.

Negotiating should be approached with a win win approach but May is just hostile in her approach.

There's a lot of willy waving by EU about this.

And yes, someone who is going to meet that like-for-like is a perfectly good negotiating strategy.

"There's a lot of willy waving by EU about this."

No there really isn't. The UK still want to eat and have and are too arrogant to comprehend that that is not how it works.

We knew since the referendum that the impossible mission that is brexit will be framed as the EU being hostile during negotiations. They are not, they are extremely well equipped and have by definition of the situation the upper hand, no willies in sight. they may be waving EU paper flags though.

I still cannot understand how this country is pursuing it and often feel that Us out of the UK will benefit a few key players and that it is absolutely against our national interest.

But those who believed the lies of the Leave campaign will believe the myth of the mean EU bully boy. They probably can't help themselves.

us out of the EU

Ok, some see it as willy-waving, others don't.

But both sides go in with a maximalist position at the outset. And tough public talk is part of that.

Meeting that with tough talk on our approach, rather than trash-talking ourselves, is negotiating 101.

I heard and thought this is going to go well........
But then I voted remain..... And I know people who worked with her in the home office.....

Do you think she could be doing this posturing to appeal to voters who are traditionally labour but pro-Brexit? Makes her seem as if she will fight for them. Each morning the Today programme makes me upset, I must change my alarm to a different station.

I think she's ridiculous. Such diplomacy from our revered PM. The whole thing is just a car crash. It's a total mess, and she's making it worse.

Definitely not a skilled negotiator. Looking a bit silly at the moment with repetitive strap lines and inability to debate effectively.

The DM readers love this

I can't see how anyone with any experience of negotiating can see this as a good position to start with. It just creates defensiveness and intransigence on the other side. Someone needs to send her a copy of Getting to yes.

What it obviously is is a blatant attempt to look 'tough' to potential voters ahead of the election and sod the actual brexit negotiation. Another example of The Conservatives putting their own interests ahead of everyone else.

Demanding that we stick to our obligations = willy waving?

Right.

The whole thing is a car-crash. It's hard to believe that there are people who still think this is going well. They must only be getting their information from the Tabloids. Everyone knows we're fucked.

And for those saying we need to posture back to the EU: meeting posturing with more posturing is NOT a good negotiating strategy. If the other side are posturing, you bring them back to the actual issues rather than create entrenched positions.

It'll probably move on from the strap lines as EU publish their outline.

public posturing is just a filler, really

The EU needs to drop the bullying/threatening rhetoric.

Not getting exactly what you want from the EU is not bullying. The EU is saying the UK is in cloud cuckoo. To be honest not being a British citizen I am now just amused by the whole thing. The UK is becoming a big laughing stock.

"The EU needs to drop the bullying/threatening rhetoric."

Reiterating the unimaginative line of the 'EU bully' isn't going to make any more of a fact. But human psychology is such that we believe lies if they are related often enough so the LeaveBots are obviously shaping public opinion misinformation.

Brexit = Massive power grab by the Conservative party. We are making Trump and Putin very happy in the meantime. More fool us.

The EU is saying there is a cost to leaving. Which is what, well, pretty much everyone who knew anything about anything said well in advance of the referendum.

The Daily Wail and friends are framing this as 'bullying' and Theresa May as our heroine. A woman who thought we should not leave. I think this arrogance covers poor leadership, and most of what she accuses Corbyn of, she forgets that when you point the finger, there are 2 fingers pointing back at you.

So I find it to be the most ridiculous position to take. But she is in unchartered waters, and she thinks she will gain from it, even if the country will not.