Attack on Istanbul nightclub

[Cantgetmyoldnameback]

On the BBC now. Gunman was dressed as Santa. 35 dead so far :-(

No, this is the only thread as far as I've seen. I guess terrorist attacks in Turkey don't seem as relevant to MNers lives as those in Paris, Berlin etc. Close to home I guess.

I've been following since the news broke (lots of coverage on BBC).

My thoughts are with you, Cote, and any other Turkish MNers, and have been since the coup.

That's no practical help, I know. But you're not out of sight, out of mind.

I don't understand it, turkey is nearer than the US, why do people not care?

I understand that it's difficult in countries with a lot of terrorist attacks. If we started a thread every time.... but turkey?

I don't think people don't care Horatia, but I guess culturally people feel more of an affiliation to the US than Turkey - both countries speak English, personally I've met more Americans in the U.K. than Turks, most movies are US based (so even if you've never been to New York, it's instantly recognisable if you watch television) etc etc.

Not saying it's right, just surmising but like I say, I don't think it's because people don't care.

Sorry 1horatio, spelt your name completely wrong

True...

But I mean, just compare this to the nigh club massacre?

Idk. i gues it does depend on whether you relate to somebody/something.

I personally felt that after the Christmas market somebody dressed as Santa was in a way a direct continuation? Like, intentionally on the terrorists part?

Which is why I thought more people would be actively concerned. Idk.

God bless their souls.

My understanding is that when people get gunned down by the dozens in Bataclan, it feels closer to home in Western Europe because Parisians are "us" whereas Turks are "other". Sad but true.

I read an article in The Independent today called "This is the reason why we don't dwell on Turkish deaths in the West" where Robert Frisk is basically saying "We don't care if Turks die because.. Erdogan".

WTAF!?!?

They have wisely disabled comments under that article. I have never written a comment under an article in my whole life, but I so wanted to write a red-hot one for Mr Frisk under that one.

Asshole.

TBH, I did care more about Paris, but that's because I didn't know whether my father and my two halfbrpthers were in Paris that weekend or the weekend before and because I couldn't reach them (they were obviously calling their family and it was a huge mess)..

However.

I don't even want to click on that article. I don't want to give them clicks. But it sounds disgusting from what you said. I still cared about American lives, despite Bush...

Exactly, 1horatio.

It's a disgrace. I can't believe a mainstream paper actually printed it.

I would actually encourage you to read it and tell me if I got it wrong. I read it twice and still can't believe it.

Yes but depressingly, these attacks are becoming so common that people are growing numb to them. Remember Je Suis Charlie, and people changing their FB profile pic to the French one after 2015's attacks? I saw nothing after the horror in Nice this year, nothing after the attacks on Brussels and Istanbul airports, nothing after the smaller atrocities and nothing after Berlin, or this latest attack. Quite a bit of self-righteous posturing on safe topics like how we in the west are imperialists or racists or whatever but it's quite marked how this appears to be the new normal.

Cote, I've lived in Turkey and still have friends there- heartbroken for them these days with the stories I'm hearing.

cote

They're either explaining why people don't seem (¿) to care or are endorsing it.

I'm not sure and currently super tired, sorry.

Fisk is completely garbled. In this globalised world there were many non-white, non-European victims /almost victims of other Islamist atrocities who received extensive coverage - the heroic North African Muslim policeman murdered while trying to stop the Charlie Hebdo killers. The black African Muslim shop assistant who hid people in the freezer of the kosher deli that day. The many foreigners caught up in the Bataclan, Nice, Brussels, Istanbul, Orlando, Berlin- the unfortunate people stabbed on a train in Wurzburg in the summer were from Hong Kong fgs. Fisk needs to update his boilerplate rants to fit the reality of 2016.

Awful.

We all stand together on this as far as I'm concerned. We do care about Turkey.

I'm Turkish, British born and lived in UK all my life. All my family (including extended) live in the UK. My mum and dad still have friends in Turkey though and visit regularly. Culturally I am closer to the UK, I've even forgotten how to speak Turkish . However, I am appalled at the difference in response to attacks in Turkey in comparison to other countries. It very much does feel like people don't care. Is anyone changing their fb profile pic or is some anti terrorist slogan trending on social media? No.

IhatchedaSnorlax I'm pretty confident that the number of Turkish people residing in the UK far outnumber Americans.

*I'm Turkish, British born and lived in UK all my life. All my family (including extended) live in the UK. My mum and dad still have friends in Turkey though and visit regularly. Culturally I am closer to the UK, I've even forgotten how to speak Turkish (so not overly patriotic is what I'm trying to convey).

However, I am appalled at the difference in response to attacks in Turkey in comparison to other countries. It very much does feel like people don't care. Is anyone changing their fb profile pic or is some anti terrorist slogan trending on social media? No. And I'm sure every Turkish person has noticed.

IhatchedaSnorlax I'm pretty confident that the number of Turkish people residing in the UK far outnumber Americans.

cote that is a fucking ridiculous article, and from what I can gather (I am really tired too!) it seems to be excusing the silence. So, if this theory is true, the next time there is an attack in the US, we can just ignore it and go "well Trump is a total cunt so they more or less deserve it" ???

Sorry, weird bit of copy and paste in my post, told you I am tired!

Please don't think that people don't care. We do.

DarthPlagueis

I care too Cake (I was one of the first posters on the thread), so please don't think I don't. I was, obviously badly, trying to say that I think most people care but for a variety of reasons (like those I listed), people aren't visibly demonstrating this. Sorry if I offended as that's the opposite of what I was trying to do .

I think about 7'000 civilians were killed in Iraq in 2016
In Brazil prison inmates beheaded each other, 56 dead and more than 100 escaped
In Bahrain prisoners charged with terrorism escaped
Or what about Pakistan? I've never even seen a mumsnet thread about attacks in Pakistan.
dunyanews.tv/en/Pakistan/368075-Major-terrorist-attacks-in-Pakistan-in-2016

I mean, so many things are happening. I do think humans have a certain limited ability to care (there are actually studies on that). But Turkey is just so much closer...? Idk. Maybe it's more about emotional connections? And via Hollywood, the language etc they may be more towards America,

However, saying that Erdogan's policies somehow mean it's ok to not care about the lives of civilians?!!

I also care about the lives of Israelis, for example. Despite Netanyahu...

We care.

I've never seen a thread regarding Palestinians killed on MN, or for the Syrian dead either.

But we still care, or at least I do.

Won't take the simple answers either.

Not at all IhatchedaSnorlax I am quite touched this thread was even started at all! Not quite the 950 posts you'd get for the same type of attack in USA etc. but still.

Yes 1horatio there are many examples like the ones you cite, I think perhaps it boils down to what countries are generally considered 'important'?

Years ago I worked in journalism and a very wise news editor told me that one dead locally, was as big news as two dead in the next city and onward

I don't think you've got it wrong, Cote. That article is quite unbelievable.

I don't think they policies of a country's leader have ever been a reason we don't or shouldn't care about atrocities.