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Southall Guilty

220 replies

Bunglie · 20/06/2004 21:48

I am so very pleased that he has been found guilty on most of the charges. I do not understand how he did what he did to the Clarke family.
What disturbs me is that he has not been struck off. There is still the posibility that he could just be reprimanded.
If he were allowed to continue to practice would you trust him and take your child to him?

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Bunglie · 26/06/2004 00:01

DO you think I (and anyone else who wants to!) writes to hin then GillW/. I think my MP is a bit fed up of me, and couldn;t cope with this tangebt!

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Bunglie · 26/06/2004 00:02

OMG my typos get worse, that should say tangent. Pass the gin bottle Janh!!!

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eddm · 26/06/2004 00:32

Bunglie, Secretary of State for Health is Dr John Reid (not a medical doctor, an academic PhD); Department of Health, Richmond House, Whitehall, SW1 ... don't know the rest of the postcode but you should be able to find it with a web search (my reference books are packed away as I'm changing jobs at the moment).

As for Cos and CarrieMac, it is possible that she (or they) is (are) a grateful parent(s); Southall has many parents of ex-patients who are extremely supportive because he is a very good doctor, except on this issue. He seems to have been brought down by an obsession or overweening arrogance which has led him to see child abuse everywhere, ignore the facts when they don't suit him and feel justified in persecuting those parents he chooses. Frankly I find it impossible to feel sorry for him but it is a tragic situation that his huge personality flaw has led him to inflict so much suffering on children and parents when at heart, he is a doctor who cares passionately about children. And who could have done so much good.

eddm · 26/06/2004 00:34

Oops hadn't refreshed display since interrupted, sorry about cross-post.

GillW · 26/06/2004 12:33

Test of that Evening Standard article, as promised:

Lies, deception and the doctor who trapped me

THE cunning ploy to entrap Justine Durkin and prove that she was a potential child murderer began with a phone call. "Justine," said the consultant paediatrician at the other end of the line, his voice caring but grim, "I'm afraid tests show your daughter might have a life-threatening disorder. You need to bring her in for 24-hour monitoring.

I've booked a bed."

At that moment, the world of Justine Durkin, then a bubbly 23-year-old mother, imploded. Weeping uncontrollably, she packed her bags and headed into the hands of the doctors she hoped could save her sickly two-year-old daughter, Rosemary, who suffered from various unexplained ailments, including violent nocturnal coughing fits.

Waiting for her at the hospital was the eminent and then highly regarded consultant paediatrician, Professor David Southall. But, as she would discover - and as he would later testify in the family court - he was not being entirely honest with her. There were, in fact, no tests that showed a " lifethreatening disorder". It was all an extraordinary and elaborate con - cynical and cruel if it were to fail, brilliant perhaps if it were to succeed - dreamed up by Professor Southall to catch Justine attempting to harm or smother her child through secret video surveillance, and to prove his belief that Justine was a potential child murderer.

Totally unaware that Professor Southall was lying to her, Justine and Rosemary were shown into a carpeted private ward that was to be their home for the next five days. What Justine saw was monitoring equipment and a bed - Rosemary would be confined to it and attached to the monitors 24 hours a day - a second bed for herself, a television, and a chair.

But what she couldn't see were the hidden video cameras that would secretly record her every word and action for the next 120 hours. For Southall had a plan: he intended to use this videotape evidence to prove that she suffered from a condition called Munchausen's syndrome by proxy, a mysterious psychological ailment that involves harming - even killing - one's child to attract attention to oneself.

But when, after two days in the room, no incriminating evidence had been obtained, Professor Southall decided to up the ante. What he did next, Justine says, defies belief. Her complaint against Professor Southall is the subject of an upcoming public hearing by the General Medical Council into his purportedly " unethical" behaviour.

It spells more bad news for the professor who, this week, suffered a humiliating hammer-blow to his reputation when the GMC found him guilty of serious professional misconduct in accusing the husband of solicitor Sally Clark of murdering two of their baby sons. Professor Southall had made his diagnosis after watching a TV programme about the case, without having had any medical involvement with the Clarks whatsoever.

The GMC - ruling that Professor Southall had abused his position and condemning his behaviour as " inappropriate, irresponsible and misleading" - will deliver its verdict when it reconvenes in August. The panel has the power to strike off the paediatrician, although it is thought more likely to issue a public admonishment or suspend his registration.

Anything short of being stuck off, however, will trigger a purported eight more GMC complaints against Professor Southall, of which Justine's case is one. Some of the complainants hope to expose just how "inappropriate, irresponsible and misleading" the paediatrician's behaviour has consistently been, ruining their lives, and those of their families, in what they say are strikingly similar gross abuses of power.

They argue that Southall's behaviour in the Clark case was not a one-off, but evidence of a trend in which Southall would stop at nothing to prove he is right. (To this day, Professor Southall clings to his view that Stephen Clark is a killer.) But in Justine's case, although he refused to see it, the evidence that he had got it wrong was staring him in the face. After two days of covert video surveillance at the University Hospital in North Staffordshire, he had nothing to show for it. So what did he do?

"He called me out of the ward," recalls Justine, 34, speaking exclusively to the Evening Standard from her GBP500,000 18th-century farmhouse set in three acres of verdant Nottinghamshire countryside. "He sat me down, and told me that the word from Doncaster Hospital [where Rosemary had been treated before being referred] was that there did not seem to be anything wrong with Rosemary and that they thought I had been fabricating her illness.

"Southall was quick to assure me that he believed me, but he said they would need proof she was ill soon, because there was pressure on him for the use of facilities and that unless something happened quickly, it would be hard to counter the view that I was making it up. I did not realise it, but he was trying to entrap me. He wanted to goad me into manufacturing proof of her illness. He thought by putting that pressure on me, I would try to smother or harm Rosemary when no one was looking."

THIS extraordinary testimony - recounting entrapment techniques that even police officers would struggle to justify - is not even disputed by Professor Southall.

One week after the covert video surveillance ended, and without any concrete evidence of mistreatment, two social workers, armed with a written accusation of Munchausen's from Professor Southall, came to remove two-year-old Rosemary from Justine's care. They also took her son, Joseph, just four years old. At the time, Justine was living with her parents in Wroot, a small village in South Yorkshire, having recently become divorced from her husband, Nick Twiss, who was then a serving police officer in the North Staffordshire police.

A moment earlier, during our interview this week, she had been telling me that she has become "a tough old broad" and that "this lady don't cry", but now, as she recalls the moment Justine was taken, her eyes redden, her face collapses, and tears stream down her cheeks.

"Something in me died right there," she says. "I couldn't make sense of what was happening. One day I'm told my daughter has a lifethreatening illness, the next that I'm making it all up. Suddenly, these two social workers came to the door.

They told me there had been a secret child-protection conference and that, on the advice of Southall, my children were to be taken away.

They said they had already found foster parents.

"At first, I resisted. I refused to let them take her, but they said they would call the police. I said, please, at least let me be the one to hand her over, to settle her in."

For 11 months, until the case came to court, Justine's children lived with their foster parents.

Justine got to see them for two hours a week, but always with someone else there.

Then, in July 1994, came the court case heard in the family division.

At issue was nothing less than whether Justine would get her children back. For the first time, she got to see the extent of the evidence for Munchausen's against her.

Although we cannot divulge what evidence was given in court, the outcome was that the judge totally quashed Professor Southall's claim of Munchausen's as entirely unsubstantiated. Despite Justine being exonerated, the judge subsequently released the children into the care of their father. Justine would be able to visit her children under a supervision order, with the local authority acting as umpire between the parents should disagreement arise.

Justine was devastated.

Havingbeing subjected to what she believes is the modern equivalent of a medieval witch-hunt, and despite being found not guilty of anything remotely to do with harming her daughter, she had wound up losing her children to their father who lived two hours away.

For years, she was allowed only limited contact with her children.

She was confined, at first, to supervised contact of six hours a week, which developed over time to unsupervised weekends.

Justine was so shaken by what had happened that later, when she subsequently fell pregnant with her second husband, she had an abortion because she was terrified they would take the baby from her at birth.

"Once you have been accused of Munchausen's, once it's on your notes, even if you've been cleared, you never know what they will do to you," she says.

Again the tears stream. "That still hurts, to think I let Southall affect me to that extent."

BUT the cloud has a silver lining. Firstly, Justine fell pregnant a fourth time, and this time went ahead with the pregnancy, giving birth to Aidan, who is now six. And even more to the point - and this makes her beam with happiness - two years ago Rosemary came to live with her after pleading with her father.

While we are talking, Rosemary, now 13, who is the spitting image of her mum, wanders in and sits on Justine's lap. Soon, both of them are in tears.

"We have so much time to make up," says Rosemary, gulping between sobs.

"That man, Southall, has a lot to answer for. He took my Mum away. I think he should get his head sorted out. I don't mean to sound nasty, but every child needs their Mum. I'd like to meet him face to face and ask him: why did you do this? Why did you deprive me of my mother? He doesn't know how much pain he's put people through. It seems he'll do anything just to be proved right.

I hope he gets sent to prison. I want everyone to know what he did - not just to us - but other families too."

GillW · 26/06/2004 12:51

Comment piece on the Southall case from the Sunday Mirror

aloha · 26/06/2004 12:58

Eddm, I agree that Southall probably has loyal patients. Harold Shipman also had lots of devoted patients. They loved him and supported him right up to the end. I suppose if he didn't actually murder you, he was a nice bloke. The same goes (maybe) for Southall. If he wasn't snatching your kids away from you forever, he probably seemed lovely. Even people whose kids were stolen from them said that Meadows 'seemed' a really caring man - right up to the point when he'd turn round and accuse them of murder.

aloha · 26/06/2004 13:01

That's a surprisingly good comment from the Sunday Mirror. How can he not be struck off?
It's the satanic ritual abuse scandal all over again.

WideWebWitch · 26/06/2004 13:05

I can't even read the complete Standard piece, it's so disgusting and disgraceful. Wtf do you have to do to get struck off then? Hmm?

SofiaAmes · 26/06/2004 13:11

Since all of this has come to light I am uncomfortable every time I bring my children into the gp's in England. As an American I am amazed and appalled that these awful people are not getting punished. I am not a big fan of the ease with which people can sue in the usa, but I think that in these kind of cases, it might just have been useful for punishing these men and preventing them or anyone else from ever doing this again.

SofiaAmes · 26/06/2004 13:11

You have to actually murder 100's of people www. ie shipman.

Bunglie · 26/06/2004 14:01

Just a ponit I should like to mentiom, as I a going to change my name to Zeberdee? anyone got it? as I am a coiled spring, both 'up' one minute and the next minite 'dpown'. I have seen Meadows, not to speak to but when he came to give evidence, and I heard one woman say "ooh . he lookks like my grandad", He is a nice grandfatherly figure but with a bite of poison, IMO. sorry back to work!

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GillW · 26/06/2004 14:09

Bunglie - that's a coincidence, as I'm "Zebedee" on another site (not this one though, obviously). Boing

Jimjams · 26/06/2004 14:17

Just read the evening standard article. That man is a disgrace. He should go to prison. Can people not be charged with entrapment - surely its a case of perverting the course of justice (or is it not justice as its in the family courts). He can destroy countless family's lives- and not even be struck off. This country is a f joke.

MeanBean · 26/06/2004 14:45

I feel like going on a demo against these medical mini-Gods. Is anyone organising one?

Bunglie · 26/06/2004 15:02

MeanBean, I would join you, with bodicea like spike on my wheelchair!
I wonder if that other site, which organised the 'other' demo outside the RCJ are doing anything, I am not a member though so I don't think I can look at the MAMA site.
I really don't know what to say, there are some Very good paediatricians out there and I don't think they should be 'tarred'(sp?) with the same brush, but I would have thought they wanted 'them' out so that people respected them more. ie, cleaned up there profession and Got rid of the 'rogue' element.
Sorry GillW, great minds think alike ....bong!

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GillW · 26/06/2004 15:07

Bunglie - no need to be sorry. I've never used it here - so it's all yours. Boing!

beetroot · 26/06/2004 15:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

frogs · 26/06/2004 15:54

Bunglie -- a quick follow-up to the Standard article, and your post of 16th June (I've been away!).

The sequence of events described in the Standard article (bearing in mind my reservations about journalistic accuracy) is a complete distortion of what expert witness evidence should be about.

The role of the expert is to help the court understand areas of evidence which are too technically complex for eye-witness evidence alone to be adequate.

It is NOT up to the expert to have a particular view on the case, nor to suggest to the prosecution or defence how the case should be conducted, let alone to manipulate events in order to prove a particular theory, as seems to be suggested in the Standard article. Nor should they be suppressing those bits of evidence which do not fit in with a particular hypothesis.

In criminal prosecutions (such as the Sally Clark case and others) the expert for the prosecution should have been approached by the police saying something like "We think this person/people may have been involved in causing the death of this child. Please carry out a post-mortem (or whatever) to see if there is any evidence for this.'

Based on my experience (which doesn't involve child protection issues) one would expect to find evidence supporting the prosecution theory in rather more than half the cases (more than half because if the police are doing their job properly they should only be instructing experts once they are sure they have at least some valid grounds for suspicion). In another sizeable proportion of cases there will be some evidence that supports their hypothesis and some which does not, allowing the expert to draw only a tentative conclusion or even no conclusion at all. In another proportion of cases the evidence will be so poor (eg. decay of bodies) that it is impossible to reach any kind of conclusion. In a few cases the analysis will show that the police hypothesis is plainly wrong.

In any of these outcomes, the expert report should evaluate the evidence both for and against and explain the resulting conclusion in a report. In the few cases where the police (or defence) hypothesis is manifestly wrong, I tend to phone them up to tell them so, just to make sure they have taken it on board.

The fact that the experts in these cases seem to have appeared for the prosecution only, and to have reached only incriminating conclusions, makes me extremely jumpy. This in itself, quite aside from the issue of their medical competence in other areas, calls into question the validity of their evidence.

Bunglie · 26/06/2004 15:59

Frogs - have not yet read all of your posting yet, however I will and no doubt post further. Thank you for your input.
Firstly, Meadows did tell the court in my case that rehabillitation was not possible and that he thought my children should be released for adoption. - so much for not advising the court as regards to an opinion of what they should decide! He did not stick purely to medical facts, or interpretation of those facts.

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Bunglie · 26/06/2004 16:12

Frogs - Thank you again for your opinion. However, if someone like Meadow's in my case did not confine himself to purely medical facts, and elaborated and went on to give his personal opinion. You say the Judge should disregard this, the Judge in my case did not disregard his personal views, he agreed with them and as a result disregarded the views of my FIVE (minimum) expert witnesses who all diagreed with him. He stated at one point, 'the divide between the experts is so "intractable" that no discussion was possible between them'. He had to decide which side he wanted to believe, and I guess he erred on the side of caution. But that is no excuse for accusng 'my side' of bring out one expert witness because of his known anti-meadows views, I did not know this, and at least this expert took the trouble to interview me, my husband, and read all the documents good and bad and I thought he reached a good, informed conclusion. But then I would he said I did not have MSBp and critisized Meadows report for not undertaking a thorough investigation or even speaking to me, my doctors or seeing my medical notes. So who is at fault, the expert who planted the seed of doubt in the mind of the Judge or the Judge who did not know who to believe?

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GillW · 26/06/2004 16:18

Bunglie - is that a quote from the judgement? If so it is the on-record exact and considered words of a judge (and contamporaneous to the case, not said now in the light of recent events, so it should hold even more weight), stating that there was disputed medical evidence in your case, and it is exactly what you need to quote in a letter back to the SS refuting their "no review" conclusion.

Bunglie · 26/06/2004 16:25

GillW not 100% accurate, but yes that is what he said, I can look it up, I remember the use of the word "intractable", and at the end he went into 'open court' to critisize the defense and plaintiffs lawyers for not getting the 'experts' together earlier, not applying for disclosure of medical notes and also he used his "intractable" word again and said that we had each intstructed far to many 'experts' and this had not helped the case.

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Jimjams · 26/06/2004 16:26

Jesus God Bunglie is that what happened to you? he didn't speak to you, your doctors or see your medical reposrts?
Bloody hell.

Bunglie · 26/06/2004 16:30

I am afraid so jimjams, my lawyers said that the Judge should laugh him out of court because he had not spoken to me or anyone who knew me, the judge didn't!

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