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Southall Guilty

220 replies

Bunglie · 20/06/2004 21:48

I am so very pleased that he has been found guilty on most of the charges. I do not understand how he did what he did to the Clarke family.
What disturbs me is that he has not been struck off. There is still the posibility that he could just be reprimanded.
If he were allowed to continue to practice would you trust him and take your child to him?

OP posts:
GillW · 23/06/2004 17:14

Aloha - no I think not, judging by this from yesterday's Daily Mail (sorry, don't have a direct link):

In tatters, his marriage and his reputation

As he returned to his home, the disgraced professor must surely have wondered how he turned from one of the country's most eminent paediatricians to such a public pariah.

David Southall had no loving spouse or children to welcome him as his personal life is in as much disarray as his professional reputation.

He is living apart from his second wife, Jean, a former nurse and the mother of his two youngest children, Lawrence, 14, and Helen, 16.

The marriage broke down as he faced a continuing barrage of complaints from parents.

The Clark case is the first of eight similar cases now under scrutiny by the GMC.

'It seems that the tensions of this hearing and the chance that he would be struck off began to bite into the marriage,' said one friend last week.

'Jean is a lovely woman who found the finger-pointing at David hard to bear.

'She just couldn't take the accusations against her husband anymore. He is an arrogant man and that broke down their relationship.' Next month, their marital home in Butterton, Staffordshire, will be sold for GBP395,000 after being on the market for almost a year.

'The sale was not a matter of choice,' added the friend. 'David has been forced to raise the money to pay out Jean and he will be gone in a matter of weeks.' Now living a few miles away from her husband, Jean Southall looks tearful as she declines to speak about the break-up.

No doubt she must question how she came to fall in love with a man, already married with two children, who has caused her such heartbreak and notoriety.

No one has watched the rise and fall of Southall as closely.

The couple married in 1986 when he had already transformed himself from a GP into a childcare expert with a passion for discovering the cause of cot deaths.

A decade earlier, while a senior research fellow at the British Heart Foundation and a lecturer at the Royal Brompton Hospital, he published a well-received paper exploring sudden infant death and babies with breathing difficulties.

The research, completed when he was only 29, was a first indication that childhood illnesses - and subsequently child protection - would become this ambitious young doctor's obsessions.

During the next two decades, he studied children with rare illnesses. As part of his work, he also controversially used secret cameras to film mothers as they cared for their sick children in hospital because he suspected they were hurting them.

The results - revealed later by Southall and fellow researchers - were deeply shocking.

In 30 cases, mothers were filmed apparently trying to suffocate their children, two were found poisoning their babies and one was discovered fracturing an arm.

MANY of these mothers have since been imprisoned or had their children adopted.

Some protested their innocence, but whatever the truth of each case, Southall's career was on the way up.

Soon, he and fellow paediatrician, Professor Sir Roy Meadow - who faces a GMC inquiry later this year - were making a name for themselves in courts across the country as expert witnesses in suspicious childhood death cases.

They declared that mothers often suffered from a mysterious and unproven psychological ailment called Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy (MSbP).

The doctors claimed mothers were killing or maiming children to attract attention to themselves.

Having identified MSbP, the two began to pronounce their diagnosis with fervour, despite the protests of parents.

Penny Mellor, a campaigner for mothers wrongly accused of MSbP, said: 'Some of these distraught mothers faced losing their children after social workers were called in purely on the say-so of David Southall and his cohorts.' One, Davina McLean, took her desperately ill son Ben, five, to see Southall 13 years ago.

'It was like being raped across the table,' she said. 'He said I was suffering from Munchausen's Syndrome by Proxy, that my husband and I "liked the idea" of Ben having a rare breathing disorder and he accused us of making it all up.' Ben was taken into care after Southall's team alerted social workers and it took a year of High Court battles to get him back.

By then, the McLeans said Ben was suffering from irreversible brain damage which they believe was caused by Southall's dubious tests involving gas.

Worse was to come. By 1992, Southall had taken up a prestigious professorship at Keele University and was about to start working at the University Hospital of North Staffordshire.

There, he conducted more controversial experiments: putting premature babies with breathing problems on a ventilator system called CNEP, similar to the iron lung developed for polio victims.

The device places a baby in a low pressure tank, forcing the lungs to expand and take in air. A tight rubber ring is put around the neck, holding the child firmly in place.

Subsequently, 28 children were left dead and 15 were brain damaged.

Others suffered horrific neck injuries.

There was an outcry from parents but the medical world sprang to Southall's defence.

Some declared him to be the saviour of vulnerable children. Inquiries later cleared him of wrongdoing although he was cautioned for being overzealous.

BUT the public anger prevailed and Southall took the nameplate off the gate to his house and removed references to his work from medical registers. When he won an OBE for his charity work, no entry appeared in Who's Who.

The climate of suspicion had an impact on his family.

A friend of his wife Jean said: 'Knowing her husband was at the sharp end of these accusations became difficult for her. He had become more unpopular than the scientists who experiment on live animals.' Meanwhile, his first wife Elaine, mother of his daughters Rebecca, 29, and Laura, 26, was monitoring his career and home life very carefully as it started to hit trouble.

The couple had married when he was a medical student in London and she was a student nurse of 21.

The union officially ended in 1986.

For him, the future was a high-profile career and a new family. For Elaine, 55, it spelled 15 years of poverty as a single mother.

Small wonder she says: 'My former husband is a very tricky man.' Yet there are those who still believe he has been unfairly treated. Professor Alan Craft, President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, has been an active defender.

He recently claimed that paediatricians such as Southall have been wrongly vilified for safeguarding children from abuse or ill treatment.

Yesterday, though, there were few willing to speak up for the man who has ruined so many parents' lives.

dinosaur · 23/06/2004 17:15

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Janh · 23/06/2004 17:28

dino, did you look at the links I put in below?

cos and carriemac both have boy/girl twins born at 37 weeks weighing 6.5lbs and 5.5lbs, an older DS currently 6, and a husband who is a consultant, and are both very hostile towards the mothers in these cases and to any criticism of Southall.

However this could all be pure coincidence of course.

dinosaur · 23/06/2004 17:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

susanmt · 23/06/2004 17:33

Someone said that parents are less likely to take their kids to the doctor because of this - some paople maybe. But dh has seen a child who had had a nosebleed every day this week and he hadn't ever seen one before when it wasn't a haemophileac (sp??). All the parents said something along the lines of 'well that doctor who is being investigated said the Dad should have called an ambulance ....'

So now his ridiculous opinion is clogging up otherwise useful doc's time. Mad!

SofiaAmes · 23/06/2004 17:43

Whoa, slow down.
This is why I, not Bunglie, originally questioned cos/carriemac:
Something factual about herself that cos said on another thread (i don't remember which one) rung a bell and I had a feeling that I'd heard it before. This memory was jogged when she posted on this thread and I then remembered that only one other person (carriemac) besides her had so strongly come to Southall's defense. I did Archived Message searches on both nicnames and read ALL the posts before SUGGESTING that they might be one and the same. Both are from the same city, have twins by ivf that are the same age, have a lot of knowledge about MRI's, dh's who are consultants...etc. etc. I stand by my suggestion that they may be one and the same. I realize that most mumsnetters (except silly me) generally choose to be anonymous and that is absolutely their right. However, I also think that along with that anonymity there is an ethical obligation to participate in a debate or discussion with an honesty about your connection to the subject matter. For example, if I recommended a certain drug as a miracle cure for my dd's ezcema and then later mumsnetters found out that I actualy worked for the company that made it, I don't think anyone would be very happy about my not having disclosed that fact in the first place (whether or not the drug was actually effective).

So, basically, cos/carriemac is totally entitled to her opinions and I think it's healthy for her to air them, but I do also think that if she has a connection to Southall, it would be appropriate to be open about it.

SofiaAmes · 23/06/2004 18:12

susanmt, my sympathies to your dh. I have just been at the gp's this morning with both my little ones (never ending cold that turned out to be allergies!) and truly feel for the overburdened role of the gp. I have the most wonderful gp's and try not to bother them unless I have to, but with young children who can't articulately tell you exactly what is wrong it really is hard not to worry. I am sorry that Southall irresponsible actions have resulted in extra work for your dh and gp's all across the uk and also extra worries for parents. I find it really sad that what should be a caring hopeful process (the treatment of children) has become so full of hate and blame.

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 19:12

goodness bunglie (just catching up on thislobg thread- so will have some disjointed posts)

OF COURSE you can't look at this without being emotional. In the same way I cannot reposnd to vaccination threads without emotion. I try but I can't do it.

What has happened to your family is truly terrible- and I'm very impressed with how calm you are able to be when discussing people like Southall. It appears to me that you try very hard to see other sides, and I'm very impressed.

Right back to the thread.....

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 19:19

luckymum - I just love these "anxious mum" comments doctors love to make. Your babay was seriously ill and you were "anxious" wow big surprise!

It is a constant source of annoyance to my friend (with an autistic dd and a son with epilepsy) that she has a reputation for being an "anxious mum". It has got back to her so many times - she's not especially - no more than anyone else - she always says its because the corners of her mouth turn down.

Now a child with autism and another with epilepsy? It that just careless or a sign of abuse........

Can't believe anyone would try and defend these doctors really. Although a phone in to the jeremy Vine show was interesting. Most of the men did support southall et all (most of the women didn't). I suspect its because most men (subconciously) think mothers are a bit dim when compared to the likes of peadiatricians. I wonder if they would include ds1's pead who is well known for getting pissed every night and driving home drunk......?

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 19:32

OMG susanmt- as if GP's aren't stretched enough.

Sounds to me as if carriemac and cos may well be the same person (if not they must win the mumsnet who is your twin competition). I don't think it really matters whether they are- but I do think if there is a connection to Southall they should either be upfront about it or keep out of the thread.

Tissy · 23/06/2004 19:40

If there was some personal connection, even if just a grateful patient, then it would make her/ their comments easier to understand, BUT I don't like the idea of, "if you disagree, keep away".

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 19:46

Not saying that - I'm saying she should be honest I think that is very important as we have a person posting here who has been accused of MSBP and has had her children removed. Surely it would be a kindness therefore to explain if she has a particular reason t feel that the sun shines out of Prof Southall's backside. Otherwise it leaves Bunglie in the position of feeling that public opinion is assuming her to be guilty etc. When it may just be that Southall's sister/friend/colleague is assuming that of her- makes it a bit different.

And if cos/whoever wants to maintain her anonymity - and not reveal her connections then maybe its better to stay away.

if she has no connections but just happens to think that southall etc are great- then fine post away, but maybe it does need some clarification.

suedonim · 23/06/2004 19:49

I too nearly had a fit when I read about the alleged nosebleed/abuse claim, as dd has had nose bleeds since she was small (grown out them now, touch wood!). But when I read this report it seems that it is a nosebleed and struggling for breath that is perceived as a problem, not a nosebleed on its own. I'm in no way defending Southall, just trying to offer some comfort to others that have nosebleeding offspring.

I thought this article by James Le Fanu was good. He's always very sympathetic to patients/parents.

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 19:52

That is a good article suedonim.

aloha · 23/06/2004 21:50

Heartrending interview with a mother who was a victim of Southall in today's Standard. Southall lied to her and tried to set her up, and when that failed (he secretly filmed her having told her 'tests' had shown the girl had a life-threatening illness which was a lie!) and the mother was just looking after her daughter, he STILL decided she had Munchausens and the only reason her daughter wasn't taken into care was because she had separated from her husband so they gave the girl to her father and her mother was only allowed supervised access for six hours A WEEK. This is a woman with no evidence against her at all except Southall's opinion. A court had completely cleared her.The mother got pregant with her second husband but was so afraid of what Southall might do to her baby she had an abortion - the 'happy' ending is that the daughter later begged her father to let her live with her mother, and now at 13 they live together, though both are clearly scarred by the experience. The daughter hates Southall.
Cos & Carriemac are clearly the same person.

aloha · 23/06/2004 21:53

BTW re the child who went into one of Southhall's experiments on children - I met the mother and grandmother. Saw the pix before and after. It's heartbreaking. They love this child so much, but she has been destroyed. And she wasn't a severely ill pre-term infant - she was a little girl with breathing problems and Southall told the parents that unless she was handed over to the hospital he would accuse them of Munchausens.

Janh · 23/06/2004 22:10

Tissy, nobody said anything like "if you disagree, keep away".

Posting under 2 different names is a strange thing to do, although not a problem in itself, but for somebody who clearly has unspecified personal connections with Southall to continue to state on a thread like this (and the other MSbP threads) that the babies who died were murdered is inconsiderate and unhelpful at best.

" I still feel he had a duty of care to report his concerns. and who did kill those poor Clarke children?" (June 17, 2.18pm)

"Those poor Clarke children"? "Who killed them?"? Completely ignoring all the medical evidence that nobody killed them, because it doesn't suit her position? Referring to "slander" on the post quoted by Sofia? This is someone with an axe to grind, not just a differing point of view.

tamum · 23/06/2004 22:14

I completely agree, and I immediately posted a sarcastic response to cos's post, but I still can't for the life of me see what she had to gain by changing names. She's clearly been using both of them for years, and not just on contentious threads as far as I can gather. It doesn't sound calculated enough to have been deliberate in a way. Why leave a huge great trail of clues under both names when you can just set up a new identity in about two seconds? I'm not for one minute disagreeing that it was unpleasant and dodgy, but why?????

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 22:50

Aloha that Standard article sums up the damage that man has done.

And your comments about the girl before and after sent shivers down my spine. To have a "normal" child taken away from you is just awful. And t have it happen because otherwise you would have been accused of MSBP...... It beggars belief.

Tissy · 23/06/2004 23:43

Janh, jimjams did say, "they should either be upfront about it or keep out of the thread."

I agree that the cos/carriemac thing is odd, and her opinions incomprehensible, but it is NOT clear that she has a personal connection with Southall- aside from claiming that he is a caring doctor she hasn't said anything like that has she?

Unless she comes back to defend herself or post any more inflammatory comments, lets ignore her, shall we ?(me included)

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 23:46

err no Tissy I said IF THERE IS A CONNECTION TO SOUTHALL they should keep out of it (unless they are willing to be up front about it) Which is an entirely different thing to saying that someone with a DIFFERENT OPINION should keep out.

Jimjams · 23/06/2004 23:53

not shouting- just using capitals to emphasise the important bit of my previous post (which seems to have been missed in lower case).

GillW · 24/06/2004 02:01

I should be able to get the text of that Standard piece for you in the next day or so - it's one of the sources on our news monitor service, so I'll look it out next time I'm online to it (I need a different PC to this one).

Bunglie · 25/06/2004 21:44

I Am Sorry but I can not stay ojective and I want to emil/write to 'The Minister for Health' I am not that 'up on politics! so I who is it these days please?

OP posts:
GillW · 25/06/2004 22:22

John Reid is "top dog" at the department of Health - see here